Cream of the Crop 1/Cream of the Crop 1.iso/RELIGION/OB_91A.ARJ/07-01-91

Text File | 1992-03-03 | 258KB | 5,822 lines

Date       07-01-91 00:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Jehovah's Witnesses

 DO> > DO> but I do agree with things that I have read in the
 DO> Watchtower >  DO> explaining 2 Thes. 2:3+4. "3 Let no one seduce
 DO> you in any >  DO> manner,
 DO> >  But then they go on to teach you something...   Isn't this
 DO> like > saying "Let me give you some advice... never take advice
 DO> from > anyone. ?"
 DO> >  Seems this would establish a climate of fear, making it
 DO> difficult > to continue teaching.
 DO>
 DO> That is because you are ignoring the proper use of the English
 DO> language. You are equating the respect given to a wise
 DO> instructor with infalability. It seems plain to me that there is
 DO> a difference, but maybe I am the one who is confused.
 DO> If so, than every person that belongs to any organization is
 DO> guilty too.

 There is one difference between what Rev. Moon does that I have never
 seen or heard of any other religions doing.  And you just pointed it
 out. While most faith's try to protect their sheep from other doctrines,
 Rev. Moon hires the best teachers from all denominations of Christianity
 as well as professors of non-christian religions to teach at the
 seminary he founded.  If you go there you won't hear much of the
 doctrine of the Divine Principle, rather you will find Moon's followers
 being exposed to every other religious doctrine that the world has to
 offer.   Once people are exposed to a higher truth and greater love, ...
 well you know what happens, you were converted to your faith, I don't
 need to tell you.

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Date       07-01-91 00:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         All Users
Subject    TV BLACKOUT

 I read something interesting that I wanted to pass along:


 Groups Plan TV Blackout Day To Protest Sex and Violence.

 A group of organizations concerned about growing sex and violence on TV
 has called for a national "Turn Off the TV Day" for Oct 29.  Morality in
 Media, the american Family Association, Americans for Responsible
 Television, the National Coalition Against Television Violence and the
 National Christian Association have all endorsed the blackout.  The TV
 campaign is led by Vicki Riley of Wilmington, DEl., who launched a
 statewide blackout in Delaware last year, and is planned for Pornography
 Awareness Week.

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Date       07-01-91 07:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Fall of man

 PM> He did FOR me, what I could NEVER have done for myself.
 PM>   In the process He took my supposed self-righteousness
 PM>       and laid it in the dust.

 If Jesus could have lived to raise a family, folks today would not be
 born into sin, and therefore wouldn't need someone to make a condition
 to cleanse them of their 'self-righteousness and lay it in the dust.'

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Date       07-01-91 16:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject       BIBLE "NWT" (Cont.n

 TB> TB>  out while you were cooking a hamburger ?    You simply
 TB> can't drain
 TB> TB> all
 TB> TB>  the blood from meat.  You're must become a vegetarian if
 TB> you are to TB>  avoid breaking your interpretation of the
 TB> scripture. Animal flesh may be eaten, but not the blood. IN Gen.
 TB> 9:3,4:" Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for
 TB> you. As in the case of green vegetatiI do give it all to you.
 TB> Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat."

 Next time you buy some hamburger, take a handful and squeeze it.  You
 cannot eat animal flesh without eating some blood.

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Date       07-01-91 16:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject       Fall of Man

 MS> MS> TB>  that mean ?  Are some sins more forgivable than others
 MS> ? MS> No.  The only sin that can't be forgiven is blaspheming
 MS> the Holy MS> Spirit.
 MS>
 MS> TB>  Now you finally make an exception.  I thought you were not
 MS> as rigid TB>  about this as you first indicated.   So all sins
 MS> are not the same from TB>  God's eyes ?  Right ?   At least one
 MS> is a little more serrious, do you
 MS> TB>  want to see if we can find another one ?
 MS> No, I didn't make the exception - the Bible does.  "Truly I say
 MS> to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever
 MS> blashemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes agaisnt the Holy
 MS> Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of eternal
 MS> sin" (Mark 3:28,29  NASB).  If you want to try to find more, go
 MS> ahead and search: there aren't any others to be found.

 Well here is a sin that has its own catagory, and it is not blasphemy of
 the Holy Spirit:

 1CO 6:18    Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the
 body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.


 Now we have 3 classifications of sins and we started with one.  How many
 more do we need before we recognize that all sins are not the same ?

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Date       07-01-91 16:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject       Fall of Man

 MS> TB>  I thought Christ was the temple ?
 MS> No, the Church (the believers, the Body of Christ) is the Temple
 MS> and the dwelling place of Christ.

 Jesus compared the temple in Jerusalem to his body (Jn 2:21), and Paul
 state that Christians are the temple of God (1 Cor 3:16).  The temple is
 the image-representation of Jesus.  However, during their course through
 the wilderness, the Israelites could not build a temple, and so they
 built the tabernacle instead.  Thus, the tabernacle, which was a
 miniature type of the temple, was also a symbolic representation of
 Jesus.  For this reason, when God ordered Moses to build the tabernacle,
 he said, "'...let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their
 midst'" (Ex 25:8).  Accordingly, the tabernacle is the symbolic messiah
 which the Israelites where to attend during their course in the
 wilderness.
 The tabernacle was composed of the Most Holy Place[2] and the Holy Place
 (Ex 26:33,34).  Only the chief priests could visit the Most Holy Place,
 and that but once a year, for the offering of sacrifices. Within the
 Most Holy Place was the ark of the covenant, within which were the two
 tablets of stone, symbolizing Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and heaven and
 earth.  We can consider the ark, then, in a narrow sense, a microcosm of
 the cosmos, and also, a microcosm of the tabernacle.  The Most Holy
 Place symbolizes Jesus' spirit self and the invisible substantial world,
 and the Holy Place, which was the ordinary place for the offering of
 sacrifices, symbolizes Jesus' body and the visible substantial world.


 In the second temptation, Satan set Jesus on the pinnacle of the temple
 and said, "...'If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down...'" (Mt
 4:6).  Jesus referred to himself as a temple (Jn 2:19- 21) and believers
 are also called temples of God (1 Cor 3:16). 1 Corinthians 12:27 tells
 us that believers are members of the body of Christ.  Therefore, we can
 understand that Jesus is the main temple and the believers are the
 branch temples,  Satan's setting Jesus on the pinnacle of the temple
 means that, as a result of Jesus' triumph over the first temptation,
 Satan had to recognize Jesus' authority as the master of the temple.
 Satan's urging Jesus to throw himself down from the top of the temple
 was not to test Jesus' ability to perform miracles, but was to tempt him
 to give up his position as master of the temple, to throw himself down
 and be as a fallen man, thus putting an end to his restoring people as
 branch temples.  Just as Satan dominated the world as its false master
 after causing Adam's fall (2 Cor 4:4; Jn 12:31), Satan would have become
 the master of the temple in place of Jesus, if Jesus (the Second Adam)
 had succumbed to this temptation.

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Date       07-01-91 16:40:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject       Fall of Man

 TB> I am baffled that the idea could have ever gotten started thatJesus
 TB> crucifixion was a victory.  Everyone knows that Christ is the
 TB> mediator for the flow of God's true love to mankind.  How could it
 TB> make sense toshut off the faucet ?


 Because He didn't stay dead!

 This makes no sense whatsoever.  You are saying it is ok to kill the
 mediator because he will come back to life.  And that will mean that God
 can forgive me of my sins.  If killing Jesus was beneficial to anyone's
 salvation, then Satan would have in no way participated.

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Date       07-01-91 16:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject       Fall of Man

 MS> And through Him, and His blood sacrifice, we are forgiven our
 MS> sins, and

 Had Jesus been accepted and completed his mission the first time, there
 would be no sins to be in need of forgiveness for.   Sounds like you are
 kinda hinting that killing Jesus was convenient because we can continue
 to sin and have a good time but we will be forgiven.  What is wrong with
 helping Jesus fulfill the three blessings that God originally gave to
 Adam.   Since Adam could not fulfill them centered on God, the messiah
 will have to come to do fulfill them.  This means the Messiah must
 multiply and I'm sure God wasn't telling Adam to multiply by converting
 the angles to become his spiritual children.  God was telling Adam to
 mature and have children. Since Adam did not do this according to God's
 will, the messiah must come and do what Adam did not do.  ...bring
 sinless children into the world !!!!!  Can you see the light ?

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Date       07-01-91 16:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> TB>  You are correct in saying that it is Satan's goal to
 MS> separate man from TB>  God, but to think Satan would confess to
 MS> ANY sin to do that is difficult
 MS> TB>  to believe.  In fact  I don't think you will find any
 MS> reference to Satan
 MS> TB>  repenting for anything during the 6,000 or so years of
 MS> human history. TB>  Who do you think taught us to hide our sin ?
 MS> Who said confessing is the same thing as repenting?  They are
 MS> quite different.
 MS> Confessing is acknowledging guilt.  Repentence is confession,
 MS> plus a change of heart and habit.

 You sure danced arround this issue.  By your definition, there is not
 much repentance because people have not overcomed many bad habbits.

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Date       07-01-91 16:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> As long as you call it a symbolic fruit, you are calling
 MS> Scripture a lie.

 So when God created the world he did it in 7 literal days ?

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Date       07-01-91 16:59:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> I think you are finally starting to understand.  Yes, they
 MS> wanted to defy God.

 You have a very shallow understanding of the motivation and process of
 the fall.  No one wanted to defy God.

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Date       07-01-91 17:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> Regardless of the thought process that went on in their heads,
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 MS> the final outcome was that although God had told them not to
 MS> even touch it, they touched
 MS> it, and plucked it, and ate it, defying God's command and
 MS> rebelling against Him.

 So the motivation behind their disobedience is not to be considered ?

 Gee,  I'm starting to sound like that guy I locked out.  You need to get
 in touch with him since both of you are off the deep end in opposite
 directions.

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Date       07-01-91 17:04:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> And the only way I can possibly see misuse in the passage is
 MS> that they "misusedtheir hands and mouths by eating a real,
 MS> phyisical fruit...

 So Why Did They Hide Their Nakedness, Instead Of Their Hands And Mouth?

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Date       07-01-91 17:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> it really means is this..."  You teach solid Scripture, and I'll
 MS> listen with open ears.

 Your original mind knows so I'll have to leave you to deal with yourself
 for a while.  You have heard the truth about the fall of man and you can
 struggle to deny it but your original mind won't let you.  I know I
 tried to deny it myself when I first heard the truth about the fall of
 man.

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Date       07-01-91 17:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> First off, you assume every action requires creativity.  I would
 MS> say that God, man, and the angels (both of the heavenly host and
 MS> those that rebelled)
 MS> are all able to be creative.  Satan was fairly creative in the

 Sounds like you want to lay the blame on Satan ?  Where did I hear this
 before ?   Oh yes !  Here it is:

 GEN 3:13    And the LORD God said unto the woman, What [is] this [that]
 thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did
 eat.

 You better learn to quit trying to pass the buck.  It didn't work the
 first time a human tried it and it still won't work now.

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Date       07-01-91 17:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Mary Sinless?

 MS> As to sin, it is not a creation, but the result God granting us
 MS> Free Will, and an action of that Free Will.  If God had not

 Free Will did NOT cause the fall.  You are not free to sin. You will pay
 for your sins.

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Date       07-01-91 17:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         SEXUAL PURIFICATCAT

 MS> TB>  God isn't going to dig up a literal tree and take it into
 MS> outer space. TB>  You are getting desperate.
 MS> Do you know that for a fact?  No, you don't.  As to where He
 MS> took it, since in Revelation it is mentioned in chapter 22,
 MS> I would imagine that it is on the new Earth that God or may not
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Well, whatever you imagine, you are definitely guilty of the charges you
 have been making against me for teaching something that is not written
 verbatim from the scripture.   Where ever did you get an idea that God
 dug up the tree of life and transplanted it some where else ?

 Anyone with such an active imagination should not have any problem
 understanding why Adam and Eve hid their nakedness after they sinned.

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Date       07-02-91 07:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ralph Stokes
Subject    Saved by the Bible, part

 RS> > RS> Now, the year was 1862. WHICH Bible do you think the
 RS> little boy >  RS> loved so much?
 RS> >  Could it be the Holy Bible ?
 RS>
 RS> Most definitely was, but which Bible is that?

 There is only one Holy Bible that I'm aware of.

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Date       07-02-91 08:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Vivarto Veet
Subject     Fall of man

 VV> TB>  If Jesus could have lived to raise a family, folks today
 VV> would not be
 VV> TB>  born into sin, and therefore wouldn't need someone to make
 VV> a condition TB>  to cleanse them of their 'self-righteousness
 VV> and lay it in the dust.' Jesus did not want to live to raise a
 VV> family!  He wanted to be murdered!  He knew very well that he
 VV> will be crucified, and yet he went to Jerusalem, he went there
 VV> exactly for that purpose.  It was his plane.  He could never
 VV> fulfill the old proficies without crucifiction,

 A prophecy is based on the same concept as the   'If'  'Else'  statement
 in programming.    For example:  'If' you eat the forbidden fruit, you
 will die...   'Else' you will live.


 GEN 18:26 And the LORD said, 'If' I find in Sodom fifty righteous within
             the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

 ...'Else' I will destroy Sodom


 JON 3:4     And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and
 he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

 So the people had the choice:  'If' they repented they would be spared..
 'Else' they would be overthrown.


 GEN 4:7     If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou
 doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his
 desire, and thou shalt rule over him.


 VV> neither would he ever be resurrected without it.
 VV> It is not correct to look at his crucifiction as a disaster.  On
 VV> the contrary this was part of God's plane for this Earth.  It was
 VV> predetermined and FAMILY  was never part of the plane!

 Look at this message someone with the initials VV wrote on 6/18/91

  VV>  This Is why God made things like flood, he has however saved
  VV> one short module around which he hoped to build up the new
  VV> improve version (noah). Well it did not work.  then later again
  VV> he tried to fix his creation by sending a sofisticated
  VV> anti-computervirus program called "Jesus" the idea was that all
  VV> the viruses will attach themselves to the Jesus, and this way
  VV> free the rest of the program
  VV> from virus.  Of course the idea was silly, Jesus got killed but
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  VV> it did not free humanity from violence, and other bugs.



 You should think more deeply about the messages you write.  Something
 inside you knows this nonsense about MURDERING the mediator for God's
 true love was not any plan of God. Rather it was a secondary course that
 Jesus had to go as a result of the faithlessness of the people who were
 prepared to believe in him.

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Date       07-02-91 14:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject        messages

 CR> I don't find it strange at all. Because Satan wants to help
 CR> further the lie that the dead are NOT unconscious, when the
 CR> Bible tells us they ARE unconscious.Who would I believe? The
 CR> Bible of course
 CR> Yes I do just `fluff' this off. And so should all others who
 CR> believes God's words over Satans actions.

 So Satan is going around ( dressed in a demonic spirit of light )
 testifying that Jesus Christ is the messiah just to 'trick' people into
 thinking that will go into a conscious spiritual world after the die.
 Why does this make me laugh ?

 If we did have a consciousness in the spirit world and we believed in
 Jesus ( at the recommendation of a demonic spirit ) we wouldn't belong
 to Satan anyway.

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Date       07-02-91 16:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject       Jahovah's Witnesses

 PL> The examples you sited were obviously demeaning and racial to
 PL> other ethnic groups, and held no truth or authenticity.  What I
 PL> am doing is simply calling a cult "a cult".  I call it direct
 PL> honesty. It is amainingly straight foreward and easy to
 PL> understand, no second guessing or reading between the lines.
 PL> When you have spent a decade studying destructive cults, you
 PL> learn to call them what they are.  I don't play word games.

 This sounds exactly like something taken from a KKK manual.  You just
 did a search and replace on 'Nigger' and put in 'Cult'.   That's the
 problem with dopy fundamentalist, they aren't prejudice, they just call
 a spade a space.... nothing wrong with that.

 PL> Thank you for sharing with me, how I come across to you.  I
 PL> assure you, I do not feel superior to any other person.  I wiew
 PL> other christians as more important than myself.

 But you clearly exempt 'destructive cults' from your classification of
 'other christians'  or you would not use such a term.

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Date       07-02-91 16:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject     Jehovah's Witnesses

  DO> but I do agree with things that I have read in the Watchtower
  DO> explaining 2 Thes. 2:3+4. "3 Let no one seduce you in any
  DO> manner,


 PL> Terry, you told me you don't read the Watchtower! (double grin)

 My initials aren't DO  !   Can't you figure out who is writing and who
 is being quoting in a message ?   Daniel Osborn wrote that part and I
 quoted him :

 Look at the message again.

 Date       06-29-91 15:01:00
 From       Sysop
 To         Daniel Osborn
 Subject    Jehovah's Witnesses

  DO> but I do agree with things that I have read in the Watchtower
   DO> explaining 2 Thes. 2:3+4. "3 Let no one seduce you in any
    DO> manner,

  But then they go on to teach you something...   Isn't this like saying
   "Let me give you some advice... never take advice from anyone. ?"

  Seems this would establish a climate of fear, making it difficult to
   continue teaching.


 See the part I wrote has no initials in front of the text lines.

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Date       07-02-91 16:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Johnson
Subject     SOME QUESTIONS...

 GJ> ->      Praying for protection from "spirits of dead ancestors"
 GJ> sounds -> quite bizarre, and I suspect that either you or Dr.
 GJ> Anderson are mistaken.
 GJ>
 GJ> Hi Mark and thanks for the response. Well that is why I asked
 GJ> the question. Because I much prefer fact to fiction and thought
 GJ> it would be better to ask someone affiliated with the L.D.S.
 GJ> church then to take the word of someone not. Not to discredit
 GJ> Dr. Andersons book as a whole,

 Humm, I'm coming in late and probably talking to the wrong person but
 what do you think of this:  ?

 HEB 11:39   And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,
             received not the promise:
 HEB 11:40   God having provided some better thing for us, that they
             without us should not be made perfect.


 Isn't 'these all' talking about saints of the old testament age, or as
 someone said 'spirits of dead ancestors' ?     Seems that if they,
 apart from us cannot be made perfect, we are all somewhat in this
 together.  I would think that praying for them wouldn't hurt anything,
 but I would not make it the central focus of my faith.

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Date       07-02-91 22:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject     Detailed Analysis (2 (2

 PV>        The term is "ex-cathedra."

 Thanks for helping me out here.  I had no idea how to find this term in
 any of the books I have available and I had forgotten it.

 PV> TB>  over a half dozen times.
 PV>        Twice, since the definition in 1870.

 Well, my guess was pretty close.

 PV> TB> I personally think this is a good idea to have this clause
 PV> in their TB> doctrine.
 PV> TB> In the event a pope does get a revelation
 PV>        Popes don't receive revelations.  If they do receive one,
 PV> they can't bind the Church with it.

 Yes, but don't you think that if God in some type of revelation/meeting
 did really shake up the pope he would spread "ex-cathedra' to let
 everyone know it was serious ?  I hope he would.

 PV> ended with the death of the last Apostle.  The purpose of the
 PV> infallibility charism is to teach authentically from
 PV> what already has been revealed.

 Yes, but we know that all has not yet been revealed.  The time will come
 when we shall be told plainly of the father...   Jesus spoke to Saint
 Paul and all of christendom has accepted Paul's inspired words as if
 they were spoken by Jesus himself.

 PV> TB>   millions of followers.   I don't know if you are aware,
 PV> but Mormons TB>  have a similar idea about their prophet and so
 PV> do Moslems.  I also TB> think
 PV>     The similarity with the Mormon stance is only incidental.

 Well, someday in the final showdown between the godly and the godless,
 we all will see that we have much more in common that we want to be
 known for at the present.

 PV> The one with the Muslims is true with the Shiites.  Sunnis would
 PV> reject that. TB>   JW got pinned down they would admit the same
 PV> thing about the TB>   infallibility of their founder's
 PV> message/revelation.  I know I would TB>   about mine <grin> !
 PV>      The problem with the WT is that since is claimed that God
 PV> is its Editor, it's infallible in each and every issue.

 That's interesting since God is editing my messages and yours too.  I do
 see what you mean. I have noted in several messages the Witness referred
 to the WT as if they did not realize someone at the home office had
 written and published it.  I wonder how this staff was able to 'duke'
 them into thinking God was doing the editing.   I have even asked how I
 could submit an article for publication in the WT, but all was quite out
 there... or they didn't know.

 PV>     And as for your position, well, I'm not done with you yet

 .....and neither is God.

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Date       07-02-91 22:40:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject          SEXUAL PURIFICAICAT

 LW> I've always found that the tree of life is merely a
 LW> representation of Jesus.

 I agree %100.  Jesus was a perfected man and the tree of life first
 symbolized Adam as he was growing to perfection.  When he fell, the
 flaming sword was placed in front because Adam could no longer attain
 perfection, with Adam all men sin, so no other men could attain
 perfection either ...until God could send his second Son, the last Adam,
 Jesus Christ.

 However, the main point here is that we have two trees side by side, one
 of them represents perfected man so it is most likely that the one
 beside represented woman.   I can't imagine a literal tree growing
 beside a symbolic one.  Now since they both were symbolic, the fruit
 cannot be literal.  Literal fruit does not grow on symbolic trees.  The
 fruit that Adam ate that then resulted in their shame of their
 nakedness. Was not something eatable.  It was a fruit that was more
 desirable than life because they knew that if they touched it the would
 die.  Only love can be more powerful than the desire for life.  This sin
 obviously involves some kind of love that make them ashamed of their
 nudity that they were previously unashamed of.   Every person that does
 not give in to their sexual impulses, struggles to keep a purified mind
 and heart.  Why ? Why must we struggle to keep our relationships with
 the opposite sex pure ?

 LW> >Anyone with such an active imagination should not have any
 LW> problem >understanding why Adam and Eve hid their nakedness
 LW> after they >sinned
 LW> The reason is rather obvious.  Before the fall they were clothed
 LW> with the glory of God, when they sinned against Him this glory
 LW> left them and they saw that they were naked.

 God's glory wasn't all they lost, they lost their purity. They inherited
 shame and guilt because up until then they had not acted selfishly.  The
 results of the fall of man is misdirected love. Rather than loving God
 and living for the public purpose, we violate the universal law of self-
 less giving and live for the smaller purpose.  If the parts of our
 bodies behaved in such a way, we couldn't remain alive very long.

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Date       07-03-91 09:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Justin Bramblet
Subject     ?

 JB>  Hmmm... the very thought of a room with both Steve and Carla in
 JB> it simultaneouis quite interesting. Wonder how long they'd last.

 Well If I had may choice I would much rather be confined with Carla than
 with Steve.  She does show signs of rational thinking.

 JB> :-> TB> Too bad they didn't get married to each other ! < bigger
 JB> grin >
 JB>  Haha... why do you say that? So that only two people would be
 JB> miserable instead of four? :-> (That one's not original with
 JB> me.)

 No, I said that because my minister if famous for matching people that
 help each other to grow.  Such a pair should grow really fast because
 they both could always see what the other one needed to change. < grin >

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Date       07-03-91 09:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject       Bible "nwt" (cont.n

 DO> >  TB> you. As in the case of green vegetatiI do give it all to
 DO> you. >  TB> Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not
 DO> eat." >  Next time you buy some hamburger, take a handful and
 DO> squeeze it. > You cannot eat animal flesh without eating some blood.


 DO> Still know better than Jehovah, eh?

 Where does Jehovah say that all blood can be extracted from any kind of
 flesh.  The point is that a little blood is ok, so exactly how much is a
 little bit.  If you are allowed to eat the little bit that is remaining
 in your steak then maybe 1 or ever 2 pints of blood is ok also.


 Let's see,  2 pints to the quart and the average human body has about 6
 quarts of blood...  6 * 2 = 12  so 1 pint would be 1/12  ....that's only
 about 8.5%  of the total body volume.     So if someone gets a pint of
 blood after an operation, they are safely taking less than %10 of their
 total average quantity. I am sure meat has at least 1 lb. of blood out
 of the 10 lbs that are piled on the scale.  You are already eating
 several pints of blood per year.  Why would your spirit be damaged from
 eating your portion of blood all at once after surgery or an automobile
 accident, when you really needed it ?

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Date       07-03-91 10:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         David Stoddard
Subject     CHRISTIAN CONFUSION!

 DS> Many will believe that One God exists but will never come into
 DS> an honest relationship with Him. They are the lost; such as
 DS> yourself.

 You must be really gifted to judge who is lost and who is saved when
 God himself doesn't even do it.

 JOH 5:22    For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all
             judgment unto the Son:

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Date       07-03-91 10:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject     Confusion

 DO> Paul, the most prolific Bible writer never once spoke of the
 DO> trinity, as you claim. At least I think that is what you are
 DO> claiming from your message.

 You are correct.

 The word 'Trinity' is not to found in the Bible and was not used by any
 Christian until Thophilus of Antioch (180 A.D. )

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Date       07-03-91 10:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Detailed Analysis (2/4)

 DO> That is an insult to Jesus Christ. Although many CLAIM to have
 DO> him as founder,
 DO> he himself said to those who called out to him "Lord, Lord!":
 DO> "Get away from me you workers of lawlessness."

 So who founded your movement ?   Be careful.  We don't want to insult
 anyone.

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Date       07-03-91 10:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Detailed Analysis (2/4)

 DO> It would probably do you some good. In the same way that not all
 DO> who CLAIM to be founded by Jesus Christ are, Carla probably did
 DO> not say what you think
 DO> she did. If she did, I am sure that she will correct her view.
 DO> She is not yet baptized
 DO> as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and so is not to be expected to be
 DO> fully "up to speed" on what we believe.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 First, I don't think a little water is going to give her or me or you or
 anyone more knowledge.   If that were the case, I would get baptized
 every day, several times a day. ( You are probably saying 'amen, you
 need it   < grin > )       So we are left to deal with whatever we bring
 with us to the baptism in terms of our views.

 Second,  although the framework of a religious movement may be accepted
 by its members, when you get down to detail, there is no 'we' that
 believe the same thing.

 Everyone understands ideas from their own viewpoint.  We place more
 weight on some areas of doctrine and less on others.

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Date       07-03-91 10:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Detailed Analysis (2/4)

 DO> I said that Jehovah's Witnesses do not view the Watchtower as
 DO> infallible.

 Ironically, I am not the only one who perceives the concept projected
 from JW's that ( in their own words )  'God edits the Watchtower'.

 DO> " This continuing claim is a Satanic attack. It is based on a lie.

 I'm not sure what claim we are talking about here.  You seem to be
 changing the topic a little to quickly for me to keep up.

 As far as 'Satanic attack' I also believe that Satan attacks my
 movement, however if we are to assume that persecution is a sign that we
 are on God's side, homosexuals would also have a claim because they are
 persecute.

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Date       07-03-91 11:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Timothy R. Castillo
Subject     Jehovah's Witnesses Es A

 TR> Do you now understand what he meant?

 Yes, I understand that the eucharist is symbolical.

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Date       07-03-91 11:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         George Noonan
Subject    The "Fruit" of the Tree

 GN> Eve ate of the "fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and
 GN> evil".  You are right that this is not symbolic.  But you are
 GN> wrong to think of fruit in the terms of an apple or an orange.
 GN> The term "fruit" here is idomiatic as in "his punishment
 GN> was the fruit of his actions".  Genesis 3:5 is quite explicit in
 GN> what this "fruit" is, and it was not sex. Satan tempted Eve to
 GN> by like God Himself. " ... ye shall be as gods, knowing good and
 GN> evil".

 You started out good but you forgot they were ashamed of their nakedness
 after the encounter with the fruit.

 God wanted man to be like him.  Who else would God preferred his
 children imitate ?   The problem occurs when immature Adam and Eve began
 to use their power of creativity before they were blessed in marriage.

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Date       07-03-91 22:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject           SEXUAL PURIFICFICA

 LW> I think if I ask you to stop representing your opinions as
 LW> biblical proof, you'd have to stop posting.

 Alas... wouldn't we all ?

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Date       07-04-91 16:40:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject         messages

 CR> >  So Satan is going around ( dressed in a demonic spirit
 CR> > of light )
 CR> >  testifying that Jesus Christ is the messiah just to 'trick'
 CR> > people into
 CR> >  thinking that will go into a conscious spiritual world
 CR>
 CR> First of all, I never heard of a spirit that went around and did
 CR> this!

 You have never heard of spirits witnessing to people about Jesus ?

 I find this hard to believe.  This must be your first day at school ?

 Well,  I suppose I have to deal with people where ever they are.


 MAT 27:52   And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints
             which slept arose,
 MAT 27:53   And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went
             into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 What do you think was the purpose of their appearance ?  Yes, to
 witness.


 Too bad you JW's never celebrated the famous pagan holiday we call
 Christmas.  You probably would have read the story of the birth of
 Christ.   You missed a great opportunity to learn something.

 LUK 1:28    And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that
             art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art]
             thou among women.
 LUK 1:29    And when she saw [him], she was troubled at his saying, and
             cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
 LUK 1:30    And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast
             found favour with God.
 LUK 1:31    And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring
             forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
 LUK 1:32    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the
             Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of
             his father David:
 LUK 1:33    And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of
             his kingdom there shall be no end.


 And here is another pagan holiday that you could learn something from.
 We call it Easter.  We christians read about Jesus resurrection at our
 Easter service.

 MAT 28:5    And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye:
             for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
 MAT 28:6    He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the
             place where the Lord lay.
 MAT 28:7    And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from
             the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee;
             there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

 You know you should get yourself some holidays and teach some of these
 fundamental lessons to your children.


 Well, let me leave you with one more.  But this is a big one.  Since you
 don't know that angels witness to us mortals about Jesus, I have to
 assume you have not yet noticed the last book in the Bible.  Let's just
 examine the first verse and that should get you started.

 REV 1:1     The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to
             shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to
             pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his
             servant John:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


 I have to say that I am amazed that with all the Biblical discussion
 about the spiritual phenomenon of the last days, I can't figure out how
 anyone could come up with an idea that only bad spirits have the power
 to appear to folks ?    You better question your leaders about this
 matter before you do get baptized.    Just ask them why evil spirits
 have more power than good ones.   Or better yet, find out why there are
 no good spirits.   Don't be surprised if they start mumbling.

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Date       07-04-91 17:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    The Bible Hell

 TB> of the immortality of the soul. Man does not have a conscious,
 TB> immaterial nature which continues to live after death. Man is
 TB> unconscios in death.

 Sure,  and these uncious folks were sleep walking when they appeared
 with Jeus at the mount of Transfiguration.

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Date       07-04-91 17:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    The Bible Hell

 TB> grave after death. The sinner cannot feel any torture if his
 TB> brain and nervous system do not function.

 What is the relationship between the spiritual body and the physical
 body ? The physical self consists of the physical mind and the physical
 body. The physical mind is the subject part of the physical self,
 controlling the physiological functions of existence, reproduction, and
 action. Thus, the physical mind is similar to an animal's instinct,
 manifesting such desires as the desire for nourishment and the desire
 for reproduction.  The physical body consists of various organs,
 muscles, and bones.  In order for man's physical self to grow in good
 health, it must take in air and sunlight, which are nutrients of a
 Positive (Yang) nature, and also take in various foods and water which
 are nutrients of a Negative (Um) nature.  The physical self returns the
 Vitality Element to the spirit self.

 The spirit self was created to be the subject of the physical self; it
 can be perceived through our spiritual senses.  Even though a person may
 believe in the existence of the spirit self as a result of his life of
 faith, since fallen man has very poorly developed spiritual senses, he
 still has many questions about what happens to the spirit self after its
 separation from the physical self at death.  When separated from the
 physical self, does the spirit dissipate like smoke?  Is it just a
 spirit which leaves the physical self?  Does it go to the spirit world
 with a substantial form?  If it does go to the spirit world, does it
 merely merge into God, or does it occupy a separate place in the spirit
 world?  If so, what is the spirit like?

 Just as each person has his own physical self, he also has his own
 spirit entity; so the spirit entity is called a spirit self.  The spirit
 self is identical in appearance to the physical self, and it can
 communicate directly with God after it is perfect.  After leaving the
 physical body at death, the spirit self lives for eternity in the spirit
 world.  Man desires to live forever because he has a spirit self which
 has an eternal nature.  The spirit self consists of a spirit mind and a
 spirit body.  The spirit mind is the core of the spirit self,
 controlling the eternal life, love and ideals of man.  The spirit mind
 functions so that man lives a life of value, seeking for truth beauty,
 and love.  The spirit mind is the essence of the spirit self, is the
 subject of the spirit body, and is the place where God can dwell.  The
 spirit body is the body of the spirit self, just as the physical body is
 the body of the physical self.

 The spirit self needs nutrition for its growth and perfection.  The
 positive nutrient for the spirit self is the Life Element from God.  The
 Life Element from God is the basic element that develops Heart within a
 person and develops him as a being of truth.  On the other hand, the
 negative nutrient for the growth of the spirit self is the Vitality
 Element which comes from the physical self.  When the physical self acts
 in accordance with God's Word, it projects good Vitality Element for the
 growth of the spirit self.  The spirit self not only receives the
 Vitality Element from the physical self, but also projects in return a
 certain element which is called the Spirit Element. The Spirit Element
 is the element that gives joy and strength to the physical self.

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Date       07-04-91 17:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    The Bible Hell

 TB> grave after death. The sinner cannot feel any torture if his
 TB> brain and nervous system do not function.

 The relationship between the spirit self and the physical self is that
 of subject and object, with the spirit self growing and perfecting
 itself on the basis of its relationship with the physical self.  The
 quality of a person's physical life is converted into Vitality Element
 and transferred to the spirit self. Thus, the quality of the spirit is
 dependent upon the quality of the physical life.  Accordingly, a spirit
 self that receives wholesome Vitality Element from the physical self
 becomes a being of goodness, whereas a spirit self that receives bad
 Vitality Element from the physical self will become evil.  In order for
 an evil spirit self to become a good one, that person must repent while
 his spirit self is still in his physical self, for a person's evil
 spirit self is healed by receiving good Vitality Element through his
 repentance and faith in God's Word.

 The most important aspect of the spirit self which has to be perfected
 through the physical self is a person;s sensitivity to the love of God.
 It was explained earlier that God's Purpose for the Creation is
 fulfilled through the family (Four Position Foundation), the basic
 foundation in which his ideal of love can dwell.  Therefore, only a
 spirit person who while on earth has fully perfected his sensitivity to
 love as a child, as a husband or wife, and as a parent, all centered on
 God, can go to the Kingdom of Heaven in the spirit world. The Kingdom of
 Heaven is ruled and harmonized by the love of God; it is the place where
 all are satisfied through God's love.

 All created beings reach perfection through three growth stages. Based
 on the physical self. man's spirit also goes through three stages of
 growth.  A spirit self in the formation stage is called a form spirit;
 in the growth stage, a life spirit; and in the completion stage, a
 divine spirit.

 The relationship between the physical self and the spirit self is like
 that between a tree and its fruit.  A ripened fruit is harvested,
 whereas its vine returns to the earth.  Likewise, because the spirit
 self was created to live for eternity, after separating from the
 physical body it remains and lives eternally in the spirit world,
 whereas the body returns to the earth.  Many believe that man's physical
 body dies because he fell, but this is incorrect.  God warned in Genesis
 2:17 the "'...in the day that you eat of it you shall die.'"  Adam and
 Eve "died" as a result of eating the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge
 of Good and Evil.  Nevertheless, after Adam and Eve fell, they lived for
 several hundred years on earth and bore children.  This means that the
 death caused by the Fall is not the death by which the physical body
 returns to the earth.  As soon as the first ancestors fell by disobeying
 God's Word, their eternal spirit "died"--that is, their spirit selves,
 which could communicate with God, ceased to function.  Ecclesiastes 12:7
 says, "...the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit
 returns to God who gave it." This indicates that the physical self's
 returning to the earth is in accordance with the natural order of the
 Creation.  A more detailed explanation of this matter will be given
 later, in the chapter "Resurrection."

 When a person lives in his physical body according to God's Ideal for
 the Creation, he will be living in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, and
 the world where his perfected spirit self will go after his life on
 earth will be the Kingdom of Heaven in the spirit world.

 However, since God's Purpose for the Creation is to be realized on
 earth, his first objective in the work of salvation must also be man on
 earth.  Thus, God has over and over again sent his prophets to this
 faithless world and even sent the Messiah himself to earth.  This
 crucial role of the physical life (and self) is why the Bible teaches
 that "...whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and
 whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (emphases added)
 (Mt 18:18), and why it teaches us to pray that God's Ideal for the
 Creation should be realized on earth (Mt 6:10).

 It is not God who determines whether a spirit person goes to the Kingdom
 of Heaven or to hell.  It is each person himself who determines this
 through his daily life while in his physical body on earth.  Each person
 goes to the place in the spirit world corresponding to the stage of
 development that his spirit self attained while he was on earth.  God,
 the Messiah, and religion can only teach people how to avoid hell and
 show the way to the Kingdom of Heaven.  Whether or not one receives the
 teachings of God and church is the responsibility of each individual.

 In the world where the Purpose for the Creation is realized, Satan, sin,
 and hell cannot possibly exist.  In God's Ideal for the Creation, only
 heaven was to exist.  But because of sin, man lost his original value
 and became like refuse.  The place where this refuse is kept is what we
 call hell.

 In a perfect person the spirit mind and the physical mind perform
 perfect Give and Take Action centered on God and unite, forming what is
 call the original mind.  Man's original mind always directs him toward
 the Will and Purpose of God.  When the physical body returns to the
 earth, the physical mind ceases to exist, but the original mind, which
 is formed through the interaction of the spirit mind and the physical
 mind, remains within the spirit self.

 Fallen man still has within him the original mind, which directs him
 toward goodness. However, fallen people have lost the absolute standard
 of goodness, and therefore their standards of conscience differ from one
 another according to their opinion of what is true. Wherever a different
 MegaMail -> Warning, Message Truncated!

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Date       07-04-91 21:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Fall of Man

 MS> Terry, you can make as many catagories as you want, but God only
 MS> makes two: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (which He does not
 MS> forgive) and all the other sins, which He does forgive.  Does 1
 MS> Corinthians say anything about God being
 MS> unable to forgive
 MS> the sin of fornication?  No.  All it says is that it is a sin
 MS> against ones' own body, not against others.

 Please note that it was the Bible that made this catagory and NOT me.

 thanks

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Date       07-04-91 22:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Fall of Man

 MS> TB>  This makes no sense whatsoever.  You are saying it is ok to
 MS> kill the TB>  mediator because he will come back to life.  And
 MS> that will mean that God
 MS> TB>  can forgive me of my sins.  If killing Jesus was beneficial
 MS> to anyone's
 MS> TB>  salvation, then Satan would have in no way participated.
 MS> No I am not.  What I will say is that Christ'w whole ministry
 MS> pointed toward Calvary and His death.

 You are obviously starting with that conclusion and working backwards to
 prove it.  God would not depend on Satan to support his will and
 cooperate with Judas to carry it out.

 MS> Besides, you are trying to treat Satan as if he were God

 What do we know about Satan ?  The Bible tells us that he is:

 2CO 4:4     In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
             which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of
             Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 Also he has kept man under the dominion of sin even till today.  You
 must think you are dealing with ? Mickey Mouse ?  Satan is a formidable
 enemy and you better watch out.

 MS>  He is a created being just like you and me.

 He was created, but if you think either of us can compare to the wisdom
 he has acquired from being with God from the beginning of creation, you
 are seriously under estimating your enemy.

 MS>He doesn't know what will happen tomorrow anymore than you or I do.

 He knows God's plan for establishing the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and
 he was slick enough to disrupt that plan and take away God's children,
 then he later took part in the murder of Christ. And once again
 prolonged the fulfillment of God's will.

 You simply don't understand the nature of love. Or you would see the
 situation God is in.

 MS> It's quite likely that when Christ uttered "It is
 MS> finished", Satan started a victory dance.

 He danced alright !   He knew Jesus wasn't going to establish a family
 and bring a bunch of sinless children into the world who would grow up
 to become messiah's themselves.

 MS> Don't try to apply human logic to the angelic host or to
 MS> God - it doesn't work...

 Give me a break !   You talk human logic in every message you write,
 then go and tell me not to do it ?   Ha ha ha ha ha

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Date       07-04-91 22:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Fall of Man

 MS> Read Scripture instead of the writings of Moon, Terry.  Christ
 MS> spent His whole life headed toward His crucifixition, not
 MS> searching for the perfect woman so He could spawn perfect
 MS> children.

 Jesus had plenty chances to get himself killed.  Rather than living a
 life aimed at his MURDER, he spent most of it trying to escape death,
 till finally he had no support and he realized that it would be
 impossible to continue on his own.


 JOH 10:31   Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
 JOH 10:33   The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee
             not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man,
             makest thyself God.

 JOH 10:38   But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works:
             that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me,
             and I in him.
 JOH 10:39   Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out
             of their hand,

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Date       07-04-91 22:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Fall of Man

 TB>What is wrong with helping Jesus fulfill the three blessings that God
 TB>originally gave to Adam.  Since Adam could not fulfill them centered
 TB>  on God, the messiah will have to come to do fulfill them.


 MS> Huh?  Show me in the Bible
 MS> where Jesus was suppose to fulfill the three blessing Mankind
 MS> has subdued the earth, and little children are born each day.
 MS> That wasn't Jesus' mission - His job was to reestablish a
 MS> personal relationship between God and man.

 Did he do that ?    No, they KILLED him first !    The messiah is the
 True Father and the True Father must have a True Wife and a True Mother
 for his True kids.   Adam and Eve fell and established the False
 parents, the messiah comes to establish the position True Parents to
 mankind.   Someday you will see the light.  I wish I were humble enough
 to help you see it now.  Why don't you pray about this ?  Maybe God can
 show you in a way you can receive it.

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Date       07-04-91 22:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Fall of Man

 MS> I saw the light years ago Terry, and continue to see it.  Now
 MS> I'm trying to bring it to you to knock away your spiritual
 MS> blindness.  You're again arguing a doctrine that is not found
 MS> anywhere in the Bible, and now you are trying to add a new
 MS> one - that Adam tryed to convert angels.

 No, I did not say that Adam tried to convert angles.  I asked you how
 was Adam supposed to multiply ?  Surely Jesus was supposed to multiply
 not only by gaining followers but also by having children also.

 MS> Genesis mentions
 MS> nothing about maturity, nor even the concept of it.  Yes, God
 MS> told Adam and Eve to be fruitfuland multiply.  But He didn't say
 MS> "Be fruitful and multiply, but wait until
 MS> some later date
 MS> when you are mature, since I am obviously not powerful or wise
 MS> enough to have created you mature."  What He did say was "don't
 MS> touch the fruit of this one tree", which is what they disobeyed.

 You haven't thought about this deeply enough yet.  God would not tell
 Adam and Eve to multiply two times.  Become fruitful does not mean to
 multiply. It means to mature.  God would not tell immature children to
 multiply, and the fact that they fell is proof that they were not yet
 perfected in oneness with God.  If a perfect person could fall, then we
 would have to assume that God Himself could also sin.

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Date       07-04-91 22:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Mary Sinless?

 MS> According to you, they just wanted a quick "roll in the hay"
 MS> before God had told them it was okay to do so, even though He
 MS> had already given them His okay (Gen 1:28), which is completely
 MS> contrary to what the Bible records. Now, whose understanding
 MS> is shallow, or at least completely blinded?

 You still don't understand the motiveation and process of the fall. They
 did not want a quick 'roll in the hay'.

 Man was created to grow to perfection, moved from within during the
 growth period, or period of indirect dominion, by the force of The
 Principle to live in accordance with The Principle.  Therefore, the
 force of The Principle cannot itself derail man from the track of The
 Principle and make him fall.  But prior to perfection man is liable to
 be derailed from the track if hit by a force stronger than that of The
 Principle, which directs man's growth.  The only force stronger than
 that of The Principle is the force of love,  Then while man is still
 imperfect, prior to experiencing the perfect love of God's direct
 dominion, it is possible for him to fall because of non-Principle
 "love," love directed toward a purpose different from God's.

 Then why did God make the force of love stronger than the force of The
 Principle?  Love is the motive and purpose for God's creating the
 Creation, and therefore, love is the most precious aspect of all things,
 To the Creation it is the source of life, happiness, and joy. Although
 God created all things in accordance with The Principle, or laws, since
 he ultimately desired a dominion of love, he made love the strongest
 force.

 Because the force of love is stronger than the force of The Principle,
 there is always the possibility that during his growth period a person
 may fall due to non-Principle "love."  What can prevent this?  Once the
 force of non-Principle "love" comes into play during their period when a
 person is still imperfect and not directly in the dominion of God's
 love, he may fall.  In order to prevent this, God game man the
 commandment 'not to eat of the fruit of good and evil'.  As long as the
 human ancestors had faithfully kept the commandment, they would not have
 established a reciprocal base with the archangel. Accordingly, the force
 of non-Principle "love" would not have come into existence.  However,
 since they did not maintain their faith and observe the commandment, but
 instead established a reciprocal base and a give and take relationship
 with the archangel, the force of immoral "love" caused them to deviate
 from the track of The Principle.

 Then how long would God have required the first ancestors to keep the
 commandment "not to eat," which is the condition of faith that God gave
 them?  Once Adam and Eve had perfected themselves and established
 horizontal love as husband and wife centered on God, there would have
 been no force that could break that love, because the love created
 between them would have been absolute love.  Then, after having
 perfected themselves, they could never have fallen.  The force of the
 lower-level love of the archangel cannot violate the love between a
 perfected husband and a perfected wife.  Accordingly, God's commandment
 'not to eat' was required only as long as Adam and Eve were still in the
 period prior to their perfection.

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Date       07-04-91 22:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Mary Sinless?

 MS> TB>  in touch with him since both of you are off the deep end in
 MS> opposite TB>  directions.
 MS> Gee, Terry, is your back so far up against a wall that you must
 MS> resort to personal attacks now?

 I really don't see any personal attack in my statement, but if you took
 it that way I apologize.

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Date       07-04-91 22:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Mary Sinless?

 MS> TB>  So Why Did They Hide Their Nakedness, Instead Of Their
 MS> Hands And Mouth?
 MS> Because, as the Scripture says "their eyes were opened, and they
 MS> saw that they were naked."  You are the only one who has assumed
 MS> that a person always tries to hand the body part they sinned with..

 Weak answer.  I what to hear some 'human logic' coming from your
 fingers !

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Date       07-04-91 22:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Mary Sinless?

 MS> No, Free Will didn't cause Sin, but it does allow for sin.
 MS> Where ever free will is involved, there is the possibility of
 MS> doing the wrong thing. As to being free to sin, yes you are,
 MS> just as your boss might tell you you are free to go home early.
 MS> You can do it, but there is always a cost. What
 MS> I never said was that sin is free - it's not.  The payment, the
 MS> wages, of sin is death.

 Finally !  You are right on target !  Well, at least on this topic.

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Date       07-04-91 23:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject          SEXUAL PURIFICAICAT

 MS> Huh?  I didn't say that God dug it up - I said He may have to
 MS> move it, but that I didn't know.  That's one of the things that
 MS> ins't covered in Scripture.

 Well, why do you jump all over me for telling you things that are not
 covered in Scripture ?   I don't see why I should you allow you the
 privilege of 'imagination' while you won't do the same for me ?

 Isn't the purpose of this conference for discussing different
 interpretations of the Bible ?   You should use your imagination.

 TB>  Anyone with such an active imagination should not have any problem
 TB>understanding why Adam and Eve hid their nakedness after they sinned.

 MS> Imagination has nothing to do with understanding recorded facts.

 You know what they were doing. You just won't admit it.

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Date       07-05-91 07:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject       Bible "nwt" (cont.n

 DO> Where do you get the authority to question Jehovah's allowing
 DO> meat to be eaten ONLY if it has been properly bleed? How can
 DO> you, as a created being stand there and say, in effect, "You are
 DO> wrong to have injunctions against blood, Jehovah,
 DO> when you allow small portions to be eaten?"

 I sure as heck ain't questioning Jehovah, I'm obliviously doing what you
 are doing...  questioning another person's interpretation of Jehovah's
 word.

 Jehovah made no injunctions against transfusions.  Your church most
 likely will change its position like it did on organ transplants.

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Date       07-05-91 07:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject       Bible "nwt" (cont.n

 DO> You miss the whole point of God's laws regarding blood.
 DO>
 DO> Blood is sacred. It is used often in the Bible to signify life.

 Lots of things are sacred.  It is not a sin to participate in sacred
 activities.

 DO> "The life is in the blood" etc. To use blood as a glue (as is
 DO> sometimes done with plywood)shows a low level of respect for
 DO> life. It is like determining how many livescan
 DO> be lost on a given construction project before such loss is too
 DO> many. To use blood for any purpose would show similar

 You should watch Star Treck 4 the movie.  You could learn that to give
 one live for the many is a nobel gesture.  We always must calculate the
 potential outcome of a situation and select the route that is best for
 the greater public good.  That's why out ancestors fought and died for
 the freedom we enjoy in America today.

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Date       07-05-91 07:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Detailed Analysis (2/4)

 DO> >  DO> She is not yet baptized
 DO> >  DO> as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and so is not to be
 DO> expected to be >  DO> fully "up to speed" on what we believe.
 DO> >                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 DO> >  First, I don't think a little water is going to give her or
 DO> me or >  anyone more knowledge.   If that were the case, I would
 DO> get . . .
 DO> Please do not insert words for me. I did not, nor have I ever
 DO> said,

 I did not change any of your words.  Why would you think I'm rewriting
 your messages ?

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Date       07-05-91 07:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject    Detailed Analysis (2/4)

 DO> They
 DO> put it to the body of elders in Jerusalem. The decision that
 DO> that body reached
 DO> was accepted by everyone in every congregation. That is the way
 DO> that Jehovah's
 DO> Witnesses do things today. We do not view those men in our
 DO> governing body as
 DO> having some personal phone line to Jehovah. We do accept their
 DO> word, but only as long as it is in line with the Bible. There
 DO> have been times in our history when some sought to introduce
 DO> ideas that were against Biblical laws.
 DO> The persons
 DO> who attempted these things were removed from the body, even from
 DO> the entire organization if they were unrepentant.

 I agree that this is the proper way to run a Church, but sooner or later
 every church has faced an issue that will divide the people and when
 someone get's 'purged', there will be enough support that you will have
 2 churches.   That's how we came to have over 400 dominations of
 christianity today.     In my opinion, love is the only glue that can
 eternally bind a congregation.  People are always going to disagree on
 truth.

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Date       07-05-91 08:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Wesley Jones
Subject         messages

 WJ> He tricked a perfect human pair didn't he? Don't you think it
 WJ> would be easier
 WJ> for him to trick us imperfect people?

 NO,  Adam and Eve were not perfect. If a perfect person sinned we would
 have to conclude they were not perfect.  Adam and Eve were sinless, but
 they still needed to grow to perfection though obedience to the
 commandment.

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Date       07-05-91 16:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject        Jahovah's Witnesses

 PL> Terry. the term "destructive" describes the groups use of mind
 PL> control recruitement, programming, and retaining their members.

 Sounds like you are describing your religion to me.

 PL> Their tactics result in the termination of independant thought,
 PL> the priveledge of thinking independantly of the organization
 PL> they are involved with. A victim of mind control has a difficult
 PL> time becoming a Christian, as it requires independant thought to
 PL> utilize free choise to choose Christ.   If you don't see mind
 PL> contril as destructive, just look at The Peoples Temple, The
 PL> Moonies, Hare Krishna, etc. Hundreds of people took their lives
 PL> at Jonestown, and the lives of their loved ones. I call that
 PL> DESTRUCTIVE.     Thakns for your input.   Yours in Christ, Paul.

 I thought Jim Jones was from your flavor of religion ?

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Date       07-05-91 16:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject      Jehovah's Witnesses

 PL> Gee Terry, sorry I goofed. Please don't be so hard on me. I do
 PL> appreciate your pointing that out to me.   Later,  Paul.

 That's alright.  Afte all I'm under mind controll and I can't help it.

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Date       07-05-91 16:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jim Taylor
Subject     Johnathan D.'s "Publubli

 JT> Insulate.dat sounds great!  Do you have info on how (or if) it
 JT> can be configuredfor D'Bridge?  What software do you have it
 JT> configured for, on your system?
 JT> I'm very interested, but also (chronically!) over-budget on my
 JT> phone bill, just like
 JT> most of us! <grin>...

 INSULATE.ZIP    6,838  07-02-91  Insulate your BBS form any user on
                                  Fidonet

 Yes, it should work with any bbs.  It checks the inbound .pkt's and
 strips out any messages that are to, from, or about the persons or
 subjects listed in your insulate.dat file.   I'm using it with Spitfire
 and DogFight but several Sysops running all kinds of configurations have
 called up and downloaded it.   I'm sure you can figure out where to
 insert it in your batch file that runs the mail.   You will have to call
 my bbs and download it, it is not available to request or crash.  But
 you can see it is very small.  Let me know what you think of the
 graphics you get when you log on.

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Date       07-05-91 16:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jim Taylor
Subject       Virgin Or Fornicatcat

 JT> One thought occurs to me:  Perhaps humanity did a lot of
 JT> necessary "maturing",
 JT> in the period between Eve and Mary.  Surely it takes more than a
 JT> naive child
 JT> to be the Theotokos (Birth-giver of God), wouldn't you think?

 Yes,  the way I see it, evil has grown from a individual and family
 level at the time of Adam and Eve to a national level at the time of
 Jesus.   So for the messiah to come it was necessary for God to
 establish a national foundation to receive him.   So there were a lot
 more conditions to be met than those of his mother.  Likewise today the
 messiah would have to come on a world wide scale. He needs an group of
 nations to establish a foundation upon which he can appear.

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Date       07-05-91 23:36:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject      ?

 LW> >Is this to say that you believe Jesus was resurrected in the
 LW> same
 LW> >body that he died in?
 LW>
 LW> Carla
 LW>
 LW> I believe it because thats what Jesus taught us.

 I think Carla is right on this one.  Have you ever noticed it was
 difficult for people who knew Jesus to recognize him after the
 resurrection ?

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Date       07-05-91 23:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject      Detailed Analysis (s (2

 PV> TB> the godless, we all will see that we have much more in
 PV> common that we TB> want to be known for at the present.
 PV>     The edge in that battle lies in accepting Jesus as the
 PV> Messiah who by His blood, saved us all.

 True, but if people make the same mistake of failing to recognize Christ
 when he returns, they won't accept him.

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Date       07-05-91 23:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject            SEXUAL PURIFIIFIC

 LW> LW> I think if I ask you to stop representing your opinions as
 LW> LW> biblical proof, you'd have to stop posting.
 LW>
 LW> >Alas... wouldn't we all ?
 LW>
 LW> Terry
 LW>
 LW> Nope!  I can count on taking the Bible for what it means, and it
 LW> has to back itself up PLAINLY before I make a opinion.  It
 LW> claims that all its mysteries are hidden in Jesus, and these are
 LW> always found in the old testament, plainly written, and by the
 LW> Spirit, plainly understood.  You gosple adds to the scripture
 LW> and presents itself as a totally different gosple, BOTH are
 LW> strickly forbidden!!

 Don't look now, but this is the same agument used against appending the
 New Testament to the Old Testament.   Aren't you glad that they didn't
 listen to people like you back then ?

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Date       07-06-91 07:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    Blood Issue

 PB>     Leviticus 17:10-15 shows that the reason the person should
 PB> not eat an already dead animal is that the blood of the animal
 PB> had not been bleeded out of it.  But they could give it to
 PB> others.  Thus Witnesses could give their blood to others to be
 PB> transfussed.

 Don't count on that happening.  < grin >

 Actually it would be a good idea if you were in need of blood and the
 hospital had some blood from a Jw on the menu.  Chances are really much
 better the blood would be healthier than the common wino blood that they
 bought for 15 bucks...  or has the price gone up ?

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Date       07-06-91 08:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject         Fall of Man

 LW> Galatians 1:8-9
 LW> "But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to
 LW> you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let
 LW> him be accursed.  As we have said before, so I say again now, if
 LW> any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary
 LW> to that which you recieved, let him be accursed."

 Be careful least you curse cause you harm:

 MAR 1:27    And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned
             among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new
             doctrine [is] this?


 ACS 17:19   And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying,
             May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest,
             [is]?

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Date       07-06-91 08:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject         Fall of Man

 LW> I see you ignored my letter about Noah and this idea of yours
 LW> with "be fruitful and multiply".  Are ashamed of that one?

 I must be ?   I don't remember anything you posted about Noah. But I do
 remember that when his son was ashamed of Noah's nakedness and covered
 Noah, this identified with Adam and Eve's shame from the fall ( and
 fornication ) and resulted in a serious curse for Ham.

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Date       07-06-91 08:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Harvey Smith
Subject        messages

 HS> TB=> So Satan is going around ( dressed in a demonic spirit of
 HS> light ) TB=> testifying that Jesus Christ is the messiah just to
 HS> 'trick' people
 HS>
 HS> Welll Jesus said that folks would come in His Name and deceive
 HS> many and that they would say Jesus is the Messiah.  But without
 HS> offering any hope of  salvation, but their own path instead of
 HS> His.  That is the twist.

 Humm, where did you get this ?

 I suppose John the Baptist should have been more careful when he had his
 experience with the spirit of the dove ?    He could have been getting
 duked ?

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Date       07-06-91 08:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         George Noonan
Subject     The "Fruit" of the Te T

 GN> Sorry Terry you are mistaken here.  Adam and Eve lived in
 GN> pre-history before the institution of marriage had been
 GN> invented.  They were ashamed of their nakedness because their
 GN> eyes had been open to ALL sin.  If the story is to be taken
 GN> literally no one in the first 11 chapters of Genesis were
 GN> "married" in the sense of a formal ceromony.

 You are correct.  No one was married in God's eyes.  Jesus said fallen
 man was born of fornication.  And we are still waiting the marriage of
 the Lamb.

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Date       07-06-91 21:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject      ?

 LW> It seems anyone can "think" what they want about the Bible.  The

 Yes, I've noticed that since about a year ago when I first started
 reading this conference.

 LW> I feel that when the bible does't make something plain, no one
 LW> has the right
 LW> to TELL everyone what it means.  This is why I have a problem
 LW> with you and your rendition of the fall of man.

 First you evidently don't like discussing issues you don't agree on. The
 purpose of this conference is to exchange ideas and information.  There
 is no way to do that without 'TELLING' other users.


 Second, and most important of all, your problem with accepting the truth
 about the fall of man is because your original mind understands that you
 have to change.  We all have to face sin and deal with it and that is
 dirty work.  I admire anyone that makes effort to live a religious life,
 even if they don't know how real sin actually is, or how seriously it
 has taken hold of us.

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Date       07-06-91 22:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject             SEXUAL PURIFRIFI

 LW> The New testament was a fulfillment of the Old, you however can
 LW> not make this boast with YOUR interpretation.  The Bible does
 LW> not back the claims of your interpretation, but it does back the
 LW> claims of Jesus! GLORY TO GOD!!!

 Then explain why there are millions of Jews who faithfully read the Old
 Testament and cannot see the continuity that you see.  Could it be that
 you are like them in that respect ?  I see the continuity between my
 interpretation and the scripture.  ...just as you see continuity between
 the Old and New Testament.


Date       07-07-91 11:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject       Detailed Analysis is (

 PV>     When the Lord returns, He'll recognize those who are His.
 PV> Those who are His are those who accepted Him, are under the work
 PV> of Redemption performed
 PV> under His first Coming.  For those who didn't recognize Him will
 PV> be already too late.

 According to Jesus, not everyone will recognize him at his return.


 LUK 18:8    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
           when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

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Date       07-07-91 11:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject            SEXUAL PURIFIIFIC

 CR> > LW> I think if I ask you to stop representing your opinions
 CR> >  LW> biblical proof, you'd have to stop posting.
 CR> >  Alas... wouldn't we all ?
 CR>
 CR> Please speak for yourself!!

 If everyone read the Bible and got the same opinion, you would not need
 your home study sessions to explain your opinion.   I can't believe you
 don't know you have your own opinion.  I can't believe that you don't
 realize we all have just as much confidence as you that our opinion is
 the correct, Biblical, one.   You should make an attempt to see things
 from a viewpoint other than your own, even when you disagree.

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Date       07-07-91 16:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Fall of Man

 MS> MS> Don't try to apply human logic to the angelic host or to
 MS> MS> God - it doesn't work...
 MS>
 MS> TB>  Give me a break !   You talk human logic in every message
 MS> you write, TB>  then go and tell me not to do it ?   Ha ha ha ha


 MS> That's because I'm trying to deal with you right now.  Not
 MS> with God.  You are human aren't you?  I do realize you have a
 MS> slim grasp on what logic is...

 Yes and I'm talking to a human right now too !

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Date       07-07-91 16:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Fall of Man

 MS> TB>  No, I did not say that Adam tried to convert angles.  I
 MS> asked you how TB>  was Adam supposed to multiply ?  Surely Jesus
 MS> was supposed to multiply TB>  not only by gaining followers but
 MS> also by having children also. NO, you did ask how Adam was
 MS> suppose to convert angles.  As to how he was to multiple, I
 MS> would imagine it would be with the sexual organs God created him
 MS> and Eve with, following the same method that man has used since
 MS> that time.  As to Jesus,


 MS> were does that idea come from?  It certainly isn't Scriptural.
 MS> Then again, almost all the doctrines you have expounded upon
 MS> have followed that same pattern.

 Yes, fortunately my ideas follow a pattern of logic.  I have a faith
 that makes sense.  Not some confusion about killing an innocent person
 so that I may be forgiven of my sins.

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Date       07-07-91 16:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject          Mary Sinless?

 MS> You really do have a problem with your eye-sight, don't you?
 MS> Pick up a Bible,
 MS> and read what it says, not what you've been told it says:

 So you pick and chose what scripture is literal and what is symbolic.
 That's really the only difference between us.

 Do you think the stars will literally fall to earth ?


 MAR 13:25   And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are
             in heaven shall be shaken.


 Are we literal sheep ?  baaaaa baaaa

 JOH 10:14   I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of
             mine.


 Did the Earth really stand still ?

 ZEC 1:11    And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the
             myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through
             the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is
             at rest.

 Did Jesus really do this ?

 ISA 11:4    But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove
             with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite
             the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of
             his lips shall he slay the wicked.

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Date       07-08-91 08:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Fall of man

 PM> (They killed Him first)    Really,?   Did Jesus have NO
 PM> knowledge that His Mission was a success in any form?    Weren't
 PM> there at least three people who acknowledged Him as Saviour
 PM> PRIOR to his sacrificial atonement?

 ?  So God worked for 2,000 years to prepare a nation to receive His son
 and 3 people did it.... and one of them was already dieing on the cross
 beside Jesus...


 You don't seem to have a grasp of the magnitude of what God really
 wanted to accomplish when He sent his son into the world.  Think about
 this:

 1JO 3:8   ...For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he
              might destroy the works of the devil.

 Jesus began his ministry preaching about the coming kingdom, and John
 the Baptist said the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand.  Something
 obliviously went wrong to delay the fulfillment of this goal.  We are
 not living in any kind of heavenly kingdom.  Christ must come again !

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Date       07-08-91 08:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Eastman
Subject     Jahovah's Witnesses

 BE> CR> Jesus will return in the same way he left. How was this?
 BE> Quietly, with CR> only his disciples being aware of it.
 BE> Jehovah's Witnesses are indeed CR> his disciples, and they were
 BE> indeed the only was aware of it.     But aren't you forgetting
 BE> what the book of Revelation tells us,     that Jesus Christ will
 BE> return in the air with great glory and the     whole world will
 BE> see him?

 Carla is right on this one...


 LUK 17:20    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
              of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom
              of God cometh not with observation:
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 LUK 18:8    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
           when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Date       07-08-91 08:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Tom Gardner
Subject       Jehovah's Witnesses

 ]TG> TB>  That's alright.  Afte all I'm under mind controll and I
 TG> can't help it.
 TG> Admitting your problem is the first step toward recovery. <grin>

 You are right.  I do have a problem. But it is not mind controll, it is
 sin.   I am a sinner.  And I need treatment.   I preferrer to think I'm
 ok kind of guy, but then that leads to complacency.

 I suppose its like something I heard:

 "Show me a satisfied person and I'll show you a failure. "

 Satisfied folks don't do much.

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Date       07-08-91 09:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ron Powers
Subject     Jesus' Resurrection

 RP> > I believe Jesus transformed himself into the body he died
 RP> with, to > prove to Philip (or Thomas) that he was indeed
 RP> resurrected.

 RP> Care to back that up with scripture? No where does it say that
 RP> Jesus TRANSFORMEDinto a body.

 You are correct about this.

 RP> What it does say is that Jesus
 RP> would resurrect the very same body that was destroyed.

 oops.. I don't think it says this. In fact, there is lots of evidence
 that Jesus' resurrected body was not the same as his physical body.

 Let us draw our conclusion as to the meaning of resurrection.  If the
 physical body's return to the earth is not the death caused by the Fall,
 then it is obvious that the meaning of 'passing from death to life' --
 that is, resurrection -- cannot be revival of a decomposed body.
 According to "The Principles of Creation", it was God's original
 intention that man's physical body die and return to the earth when it
 becomes old (Eccles 12:7).  So once the physical body decomposes, it
 will not be resurrected to its original state.

 Since resurrection does not refer to physical life and death, it must
 refer to the life and death of man's spirit.  Therefore resurrection is
 the process of man's being restored from Satan's dominion to God's
 direct dominion through the Dispensation for Restoration.  If a person
 repents of his sins and becomes a better person today than he was
 yesterday, then he is resurrected to that extent.  Jesus said, "'... he
 who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he
 does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.'" (Jn
 5:24).  This shows that resurrection, or passing from death to life,
 begins from the point of hearing Jesus' words and believing in God.  The
 Bible says, "... as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made
 alive" (1 Cor 15:22).  Because of the fall of Adam, his entire lineage
 has been a satanic one, and therefore dead.  So, to be resurrected means
 to become one of God's lineage, through Christ.

 However, Matthew 27:52 seems to support belief in resurrection of the
 physical body.  Let us examine this passage.  It says, "... the tombs
 also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep
 were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his [Jesus'] resurrection
 they went into the holy city and appeared to many." However, if this had
 taken place literally, then the history of persecution in early
 Christianity would not have taken place.  Even though the Israelites had
 become faithless and had crucified Jesus, they had done so believing
 that he was not the Lord.  However, if they had witnessed the prophets
 rising from their tombs and had heard them testifying that Jesus was the
 Messiah, wouldn't they have believed in Jesus?  Then why would they have
 persecuted the disciples of Jesus?

 Also, since resurrection is said to result in eternal life, then
 shouldn't we be able to see many of those resurrected Old Testament
 prophets alive today?  And wouldn't those brought to life through the
 grace of resurrection have testified to many about God and Jesus? Then
 certainly there would have been some record of this in the Book of Acts.
 However, there is only one passage in the Bible that mentions them --
 the one in Matthew which tells of their rising from their tombs and
 appearing to many (Mt 27:52).

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Date       07-08-91 13:06:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      ?

 CR> > Jesus was in a different body, only that he was not
 CR> > recognized.
 CR>
 CR> This is true. But, if you don't come to this conclusion then how
 CR> do you explain
 CR> Luke 24: 15-35?
 CR>
 CR> "Now as they were conversing and discussing  Jesus approached
 CR> and began walking
 CR> with them, but their eyes were kept from recognizing him."

 You are correct on this point.  I wonder why you find the need to have
 Jesus reclaim his physical body to show doubting Thomas ?   Haven't you
 read about spirits eating with Abraham and wrestling with Jacob ?

 Surely you know of them fornicating in Sodom and I know you have heard
 me tell everyone that Lucifer fornicated with Eve.

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Date       07-08-91 13:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    Detailed Analysis

 GS> Does Moon teach that Elijah's "help" for St. John the Baptist
 GS> extend past the point of prayer or was that it?

 This is difficult to answer, because the Divine Principle teaches that
 John the Baptist had a mission far beyond testifying to Jesus.  This
 leads to the conclusion that John failed his mission.  Now about the
 support that he (John) had from Elijah, there is not anything that I
 have read that is specific in this case.

 The main idea behind the support and help from the spirit world is not
 really focused on what spirits actually do, but rather the motivation
 and purpose of their cooperation with living people.  Let me explain:

      Countless people have already passed on to the spirit world, and
 not one has ever perfected himself while on earth in his physical self.
 How can these spirit persons be resurrected?  A person's spirit self can
 neither grow nor be resurrected apart from the physical self.  So for
 those in the spirit world to be resurrected, they must return to earth
 and fulfill the responsibility that they left unaccomplished during
 their physical life.  they accomplish this by cooperating with people on
 earth and working through others' physical selves to help them to
 fulfill their mission.  This is the reason that Jude 1:14 says that in
 the Last Days '... the Lord came with his holy myriads ...". In what
 manner do the spirit persons cooperate with persons on earth to
 accomplish God's Will?  When a person on earth, through prayer or
 spiritual activities, happens to form a base conductive to spiritual
 communication and partnership, then a spirit person will return and
 begin to cooperate with that person on earth by Give and Take Action
 with his spirit self.

 {Notice this next paragraph. It is the most complete answer I can offer}

      The spirit person helps the person on earth to receive revelations
 or to have deep experiences of truth, and sometimes helps him to
 experience other spiritual phenomena such as the power to cure diseases,
 the ability to prophesy, or spiritual fire.

      Jesus' age two thousand years ago and the time when Christ returns
 in the Last Days are both special times when all the faithful on earth
 can be spiritually elevated (in accordance with the Dispensation for
 Restoration).  Especially since these are the times when God's Word of
 re-creation appears anew (as the gospel and the new words respectively),
 then according to the principles of resurrection these times are the
 most significant opportunities -- opportunities when man's spirit self
 can be resurrected at an accelerated rate. Therefore, in Jesus' time the
 form spirits of the Old Testament Age, who had dealt only with the Law,
 all longed to return and meet the condition of cooperating with the
 faithful on earth.
      Since Elijah appeared as a spirit person to Jesus and his disciples
 on the mount of the Transfiguration (Mt 17:3), it is clear that Elijah
 is in the spirit world.  Yet, Jesus indicated that John the Baptist, who
 was on earth, was Elijah (Mt 17:12,13; 11:14).  In light of the
 principles of resurrection we can understand that Elijah had returned in
 order to complete the mission that he had left unaccomplished while on
 earth by cooperating with John the Baptist.  According to the principles
 governing returning resurrection, the physical self of John the Baptist
 was a substitute for that of Elijah.
      Matthew 27:52 says that when Jesus died on the cross many saints
 rose from their tombs.  This is also a phenomenon of the resurrection of
 spirit persons -- resurrection of those who had developed a form spirit
 while on earth.  By cooperating with those on earth who believe in and
 attend the Lord of the Second Coming and by helping them to become
 divine spirit selves, spirit persons of the life spirit level (Paradise)
 can receive the same benefits and themselves become divine spirits.
      Hebrews 11:39-41 says, "And all these [saints of the Old Testament
 age], though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was
 promised [admission to the Kingdom of Heaven], since God had foreseen
 something better [the Kingdom of Heaven] for us [persons on earth], that
 apart from us they [spirit persons] should not be made perfect". These
 words demonstrate the principles of returning resurrection.

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Date       07-08-91 13:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     JESUS' RESURRECTION

 CR> Lets not forget that when Jesus appeared to Thomas, he appeared
 CR> even though the doors were locked.

 This is what I mentioned to you about Jesus reclaiming his physical
 body. Had he done this he could not have appeared in the closed room.
 And if he could walk through a wall in his physical body, someone would
 have to come up with a wild tail on how the nails held him on the cross.

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Date       07-08-91 13:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> Terry, why do you ignore the scriptures that tell us the DEAD
 CR> are conscious of NOTHING? It amazes me how you can ignore these
 CR> scriptures, but you don't ignore the ones you want to believe...

 Do you know that you do this also ?   I find lots of scripture about the
 work of the spiritual world.  I'm even more amazed that you would pick
 some vague reference over the many actions of those in the spiritual
 world to form your conclusion.

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Date       07-09-91 08:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Wesley Jones
Subject          messages

 WJ> >  NO,  Adam and Eve were not perfect. If a perfect person
 WJ> > sinned we would
 WJ> >  have to conclude they were not perfect.  Adam and Eve
 WJ> > were sinless, but
 WJ> >  they still needed to grow to perfection though obedience
 WJ> > to the
 WJ> >  commandment.
 WJ> So now you are saying that one (or two in this case) of Gods
 WJ> creatures are not perfect. Why would God make something that was
 WJ> not perfect. Does a construction worker try to make a house as
 WJ> close to perfect as possible. Why can't he make it perfect?

 The answer lies in the understanding of the difference between
 sinlessness and perfection.  God created Adam and Eve sinless but unlike
 a house created by a construction worker, Adam and Eve's perfection was
 to be achieved by their own participation.  The house does not have a
 commandment to obey.   The construction worker cannot experience the
 quality of the the love relationship with his house that a parent can
 with his children.

 In the beginning, God gave the first man and woman a commandment which
 they were to obey until they perfected themselves.  The realization of
 the Purpose of the Creation is possible only if man and woman accomplish
 their responsibility, by obeying the commandment.  The Purpose of the
 Creation is not to be accomplished simply by concern and action on the
 part of God.  Although man's responsibility may seem infinitely small,
 it is a principle of the Creation that man's responsibility is a
 necessary element.  Thus, in order to restore the lost Purpose of the
 Creation, man's portion of responsibility is also absolutely essential--
 it cannot be done by God's power and dispensation alone.

 WJ> No doubt that you have been missled by someone in your life to do
 WJ> something that you didn't think  was wrong. Well,
 WJ> thats how  Eve messed up for  all of  us. She was missled by
 WJ> Satan. Thats how we got to be imperfect.

 Man has never been perfect.  We didn't fall from perfection, we fell on
 the way to perfection.   You may want to think about the bond of love
 that exists between God and a perfected person.  This bond of love is so
 strong that the person has in reality lost their freedom to sin.  It is
 somewhat like a person that is so in love with their spouse that it
 would be impossible for another person to come along and tempt them to
 enter into a relationship that would violate the marriage.  This is the
 same kind of bond man should have attained with God, but since it was
 not the Bible points out that:

 ROM 3:10    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
 ROM 3:11    There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh
             after God.

 And you can find over 20 references in scripture that say fallen man is
 whoring in his relationship to god.

 EXO 34:15   Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land,
 and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their
 gods, and [one] call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

 All of this is strong evidence that man never attained the perfect love
 of God.  I have personally experienced the powerful true love of God,
 and I'm sure you have too.  If you think about living in this kind of
 love all the time, what could a person living in this state possibly
 want to do that would violate this relationship ?

 I think it may be compared to giving someone a multi-million dollar home
 and saying you can live here as long as you don't break out the windows.

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Date       07-09-91 13:01:00
From       Terry Blount
To         B J
Subject     CAIN

 BJ> When Lucifer was cast out of heaven, wasn't he cast into the
 BJ> earth?  Since he was, and he was already here when Eve was
 BJ> tempted, is it possible there was
 BJ> a civilization here (sons & daughters of men), Isa 14:16
 BJ> described satan as
 BJ> "the man."
 BJ>
 BJ> According to Isa 14:12 and Rev 12:7-9, he (the devil), was cast
 BJ> into the earth
 BJ> thus showing us the earth before Adam.  Isn't this so?
 BJ>
 BJ> B J

 First, you should consider using your real name.

 Next,  you are correct about Satan being cast out of heaven and thrown
 down to earth.   But consider the Biblical usages of the terms heaven
 and earth:

 In the Bible 'heaven' usually means the holy, exalted, and sinless realm
 which is under the sovereignty of good, while 'earth', its opposite,
 means the unholy, base, and sinful realm under the sovereignty of evil.
 for example, when we say, "'... Our Father who art in heaven ...'" (Mt
 6:9), we do not mean that God is located in the sky, but are referring
 to the holy and exalted realm of God's existence.  Thus to "meet the
 Lord in the air" does not mean the physical elevation of Christians to
 meet Christ in the sky, but rather refers to the development of their
 inner spiritual qualities and their serving Christ in the world of good
 sovereignty when he returns and establishes the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth.

 Though Genesis 6:13 says that God intended to destroy the earth at
 Noah's time, God did not actually do so.  Elsewhere the Bible assures us
 that the earth is eternal: "A generation goes, and a generation comes,
 but the earth remains for ever" (Eccles 1:4) and "He built his sanctuary
 like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded for ever"
 (Ps 78:69).  God would never have made any plan for the Garden of Eden,
 the eternal Kingdom of Heaven on earth, if it could not be realized.
 Since God's Kingdom is to be eternal, and the earth is the place where
 he will establish his Kingdom, then the earth must also be eternal.  By
 all means God will fulfill the Purpose of the Creation on this earth.

 Then what is the meaning of the Bible verses 2 Peter 3:12 and Isaiah
 24:19, which refer to the destruction of the heavens and the earth? The
 destruction of the heavens and the earth that are described in the Bible
 mean the destruction of the satanic sovereignty that has controlled
 heaven and earth since man's fall.  The appearance of a new heaven and
 earth means the establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven, centered on the
 Messiah, under the sovereignty of God.

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Date       07-09-91 13:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Contradictions

 WC>     Peter Abelard have a number of historical references to draw
 WC> upon for his beliefs. Abelard was doing nothing more than
 WC> expressing the views of men down through history. We can trace
 WC> the though of atone- ment as you have expressed it historically
 WC> back to Tertullian who lived in the late 2nd and early 3rd
 WC> centuries.
 WC>     This is not given in support any position. It is a
 WC> historical trace that I have uncovered in the past few weeks.

 Even if Abelard's ideas can be traced to Tertullian, we still haven't
 connected these heresies to the Bible or especially to anything Jesus
 said.

 Jesus didn't come to die, he came to do away with the work of the devil
 but was met with hostility and was MURDERED before establishing the
 promsed kingdom.  So now we are waiting on the second coming to
 completely liberate mankind and reunite us with our ture parent.

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Date       07-09-91 15:51:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject    ?

 LW> Sorry if I have offended you.  It just seems as if you are
 LW> presenting your "ideas" as the only truth.

 Don't you feel that way about your belief ?

 LW> >Second, and most important of all, your problem with accepting
 LW> the truth >about the fall of man is because your original mind
 LW> understands that you >have to change.
 LW>
 LW> Not really.  The problem I have with it is that you don't let
 LW> the Bible back itself up.

 Well you are not the first person that had a problem with failing to
 understand new truth for lack of scriptural support.  That's the main
 reason the Jewish people rejected Jesus.

 LW> My mind is open to whatever new light the Spirit chooses to show
 LW> me.  He has not brought
 LW> any light to your opinion.  Paul said to search the scriptures
 LW> to see if what he says is truth, I have applied this rule to
 LW> you.

 All I can say is that I sorry you can't understand the message I have
 been testifying to.  That message is that Christ came to establish the
 kingdom of heaven in a realistic way by becoming the first man to become
 the head of a sinless family.  This means that Adam and Eve fell before
 their children were born because they did not abstain from indulgence in
 sexual love before they were mature enough to be blessed in marriage by
 God.  It also means that the messiah must return in the flesh and
 establish this sinless family on earth.

 There is only one way you will understand this, that is to ask God if he
 wants grand children.   If you figure out that much, you will start to
 see the big picture.  Then I can explain more about the necessary
 conditions that must be met before the restoration of mankind can be
 achieved.

 I really wish your mind was open to a new light.

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Date       07-09-91 21:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gil Wilkes
Subject    Sexual Purification

 GW> other things, that Adventists are dairy vegitarians and they
 GW> don't seem to like to do anything but lounge around their hotels
 GW> on Saturdays; and they like LOTS of extra
 GW> towels (what did they do with all of our towels?). peace/gvw

 Probably took them home at the rates you charged !  < grin >

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Date       07-09-91 21:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gil Wilkes
Subject    The Two Witnesses

 GW>  Have you tried the Washington Times? -Somehow, i don't think
 GW> Rick is gatheringhis information from the evening news - most of

 Do you know who founded the Washington Times ?

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Date       07-10-91 08:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject      ?

 LW> Do you have a scriptural reference to prove that he returned
 LW> "spiritually" in 1914?  Especially after I showed you in the NWT
 LW> that he was raised bodily.

 It was 1936, Easter Sunday.  He appeared to a young korean man who was
 praying on a hillside.  And there he gave Rev. Sun Myung Moon a mission
 and started a series of revelations that became known as the divine
 principle.  You should find out what Jesus had to say after all your
 eternal future is on the line.

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Date       07-10-91 07:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject    what?

 LW> >Then explain why there are millions of Jews who faithfully
 LW> >read the Old Testament and cannot see the continuity that you
 LW> see.
 LW> Terry
 LW>
 LW> Why don't you ask this question to one of the several Jews
 LW> present here?

 The real question is why can't you see the continuity between my ideas
 and the Bible.  You'll have to answer that one.  Just like the people of
 Jesish persuasion will have to explain why they don't accept the New
 Testament.

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Date       07-10-91 15:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject           Mary Sinless?

 MS> TB>  So you pick and chose what scripture is literal and what is
 MS> symbolic. TB>  That's really the only difference between us.

 MS> No, I look at the passages around a verse and try to see what is
 MS> being said,
 MS> and see if the verses around it suggest literal vrs symbolic
 MS> interpretation.
 MS> There is nothing around the account of the Fall to suggest
 MS> symbolism.

 HOLY MOSES !  talking snakes, trees with fire in front of them, fruit
 that poisoned one's descendants  ?    I don't think we are talking about
 the same subject !

 TB>  Do you think the stars will literally fall to
 MS> earth ? TB>  MAR 13:25   And the stars of heaven shall fall, and
 MS> the powers that are
 MS> TB>              in heaven shall be shaken.

 MS> Yes.  Meterorites are possible, as would be man-made objects
 MS> that are in space, which appear like stars from the ground.

 See !  See !  There you go interpreting that the stars are symbolic for
 meteorites.  Where did you get the understanding that stars were
 symbolic for meteorites ?     You should notice that the Sun, Moon and
 stars in Joseph's dream were the Father, Mother and the Children.  The
 stars that fall to earth in the last days are christian ( who are in the
 position to children of Christ ) that reject and persecute the Lord of
 the Second Advent.   Remember who else fell to earth ?

      MS> TB>  Are we literal sheep ?  baaaaa baaaa
 MS> TB>  JOH 10:14   I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep],
 MS> and am known of
 MS> TB>              mine.

 MS> Yes.  We are as much like sheep to our Creator as sheep are to

 You mean you are a sheep.  Do you have any wool ?    Once again you are
 picking and choosing what you want to take as literal and what you want
 to take as symbolic.  We are not that different.


 MS> Fall is. TB>  Did Jesus really do this ?
 MS> TB>  ISA 11:4    But with righteousness shall he judge the poor,
 MS> and reprove
 MS> TB>              with equity for the meek of the earth: and he
 MS> shall smite TB>              the earth with the rod of his
 MS> mouth, and with the breath of
 MS> TB>              his lips shall he slay the wicked.



 MS> He hasn't yet, but He will at His return.  Check out Revelation

 This was not a prophecy about a second coming of Christ.  What lead you
 to interpret this prophecy about Christ's first coming and apply it to a
 second coming.  In fact there is no reference to Christ coming twice
 until Jesus was met with hostility and rejection, AND faithlessness.

 MS> 19:12-16:        His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head
 MS> are many crowns. He
 MS>        has a name written on him that no one knows but he
 MS> himself.

 This doesn't sound like Jesus is coming back himself, since we all know
 Jesus name it must be someone else.

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Date       07-10-91 16:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject       Parents Of Jesus

 WC> had no possible way of knowing about it. And even had he know
 WC> that the Holy Spirit had overshadowed Mary and she had conceived

 LUK 1:35    And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost
             shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall
             overshadow thee:


 I think it says that the power of the Highest shall overshadow her.

 That was Zechariah.

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Date       07-10-91 16:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     There could well have been sinless children born had there
 WC> been sufficient time between the creation of Eve and the Fall.
 WC> However, we do know that there was no children born in the
 WC> Garden. The implication is that the fall occurred before
 WC> conception occurred.

 Why would God want Cain and Abel to make an offering if it were not some
 kind of condition to begin a covenant and start man's restoration.  If
 my children were lost I would try immediately to do something to save
 them.    Also any sinless children would qualify to be the messiah of
 the others.  Sinless children could have multiplied and given God grand
 children and a sinless race of people.  Where are they ?

 The implication is that the fall occurred prior to Adam and Eve
 receiving God's blessing of marriage.   Had they been married their
 children would have belonged to God and Jesus would have not said:

 JOH 8:41    Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be
             not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
 JOH 8:42    Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love
             me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I
             of myself, but he sent me.
 JOH 8:44    Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your
             father ye will do.

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Date       07-10-91 16:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     That's just it, Terry. I am on the winning team. The Bible
 WC> says so.

 Humm, It clearly says that Terry Blount is on the winning team. Does
 that mean that you are on the losing team ?

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Date       07-10-91 16:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC> so. I have experienced miracles of God first hand. I have
 WC> watched as Pentecost visited many people exactly as in the Book
 WC> of Acts. I have witnessed many miracles involving other people.

 But I have found God.  You are still like a hunter tracking a rabbit in
 the snow. All you have found are signs.

 WC> All these things occurred as the Book said. I have had my own
 WC> personal encounter with the experience of Pentecost. It was like
 WC> that described in the Book of Acts. If you expect me to dump
 WC> what I have you will certainly have to demonstrate that you have
 WC> been given the power and authority to sup- plant written
 WC> Scripture.

 You don't have to dump any of your experiences.  You just need to expand
 your mind so that you can see the big picture and put everything in
 proper perspective.

 WC> We are still waiting.

 Yes and the Jews are still waiting on the first coming of Christ.  I'm
 one of the few and the proud that knows about both the first and second
 coming.

 LUK 19:42   Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy
             day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they
             are hid from thine eyes.

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Date       07-10-91 16:32:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     Jacob did not restore the birthright of anyone. He took the
 WC> family birthright which legally and rightfully belonged to the
 WC> eldest son through deceit and cunning. The word Jacob means
 WC> deceiver. He had a bad attitude.

 this doesn't seem to fit scripture:

 ROM 9:13    As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

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Date       07-10-91 16:40:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     Given that John's ministry only lasted about 6 months and he
 WC> was thrown into prison shortly after the baptism of Jesus I do
 WC> not believe that John was ever a hindrance in any way at all. He
 WC> even stated publicly that Jesus was greater than he. He even
 WC> stated that he was not worthy to unloose the shoes form His
 WC> feet. No, John was never a hindrance to the ministry of Jesus.
 WC> He did not live long enough to be a hindrance of an aid. The
 WC> ministry of Jesus lasted three years. That of John 6 months.
 WC> Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. That leaves at most only
 WC> 5 months assuming John baptize Jesus during the first month of
 WC> his ministry. However, we do know that John was already widely
 WC> known and considered a prophet when Jesus came on the scene.

 What is the motivating force behind John's death ?

 Was John on a mission give to him by Jesus, or was he doing his own
 thing ?

 Can you remeber any other people that suffered and died when they lost
 faith ?

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Date       07-10-91 16:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     By what power and authority should I believe Moon. God
 WC> worked many great signs and wonders by the hand of Moses, Jesus,
 WC> and the apostles which demonstrated their power and authority.
 WC> Where are the signs and wonders to demonstrate the power and
 WC> authority.

 What kind of sigh do you want to see ?

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Date       07-10-91 16:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     I do not take lightly extra-biblical revelation and in

 I do believe you.  In fact, I'm about to write a program to search and
 replace 'extra-biblical' with 'new revelation' or 'higher truth' in the
 rest of your messages.  Again if you want to hear what you already know
 then you are making a mistake reading my messages.  I'm not here to
 waste my time, or yours, and just repeat the same ideas you are so
 confortable with.   New wine must be put into fresh wineskins.

 WC> particular anything that contradicts Scripture. If you are going
 WC> to embrace the Rev. Moon's doctrine you better be sure you can
 WC> verify it. Most of what you say is certainly extra-biblical.

 I think you could get by with saying ALL of what I say is a new
 revelation.

 WC> A reasonable question would be was Rev. Moon aware of the above
 WC> passages? A vision is a very weak thing to accept when it
 WC> contradicts Scripture so blatantly. There is also the Scripture
 WC> which tells us that Satan appears as an angel of

 Well one thing that comes to mind when this argument is repeated is what
 Jesus said:

 MAR 3:24    And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom
             cannot stand.
 MAR 3:25    And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot
             stand.
 MAR 3:26    And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he
             cannot stand, but hath an end.

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Date       07-10-91 16:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority part

 WC>     You tell me that, Terry, but the Bible says that Jesus
 WC> Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It also gives
 WC> a number of test for anything that contradicts Scripture. What
 WC> proof are you able to offer that will demonstrate that you are
 WC> correct? A vision that anoth- er man had is totally insufficient
 WC> according to Scripture.

 What kind of proof would satisfy you ?

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Date       07-10-91 16:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jim Taylor
Subject        Virgin Or Fornicaicat

 JT> and bears serious consideration!  I have always pictured the
 JT> triumphant return
 JT> of Mashiach (Christ) as it is pictured in Zechariah, as an
 JT> utterly triumphant, totally
 JT> irresistable invasion of the earth by the armies of Heaven.  The
 JT> thought

 Yes, that is certianly what every believe hopes for, but consider what
 Jesus said about the second coming:

 LUK 18:8    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
           when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 LUK 17:22   And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye
             shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and
             ye shall not see [it].
 LUK 17:23   And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not
             after [them], nor follow [them].
 LUK 17:24   For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part]
             under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so
             shall also the Son of man be in his day.
 LUK 17:25   But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of
             this generation.

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Date       07-11-91 07:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bob Eastman
Subject      Jahovah's Witnesses

 BE>     You need to go back and rethink your position Terry. What
 BE> Jesus is     saying in Luke 17:20 is that it is fruitless to try
 BE> to observe the     time of his coming. That is, it will be
 BE> impossible to foretell when     He will come. In the prophacies
 BE> concerning Christ's second advent,     it is made very clear
 BE> that the whole world will be witness to the     event. It will
 BE> be quite a show when Jesus returns.

 Jesus said: 'Will Christ find faith at the second coming ?"   If there
 is such a spectacular show then it will be on the 6:00 news, and surely
 there will be no faithless people.  Don't you believe the space shuttle
 has gone into outer space and returned ?   You have seen it land on tv.
 How could the messiah come back like this and then find someone without
 faith ?

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Date       07-11-91 07:59:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ralph Stokes
Subject     The Watchtower, In An Ap

 RS> I agree. So don't OFFER it then demand a "donation" for it. Tell
 RS> them up front...this magazine is FOR SALE.

 Well, I haven't been approached by someone trying to get a donation for
 their literature but I can see that any kind of education, whether it be
 orthodoxy or heresy is expensive.   In fact I should be asking you up
 front for some money for every message you read that I have written.
 Can we negotiate a price ?  Should I charge by the length, or quality,
 or time it took me to compose it ?   I do know one thing, if you are
 paying for something you take better care of it.  That means if you buy
 a book you are more likely to see what's in it for you than if someone
 left it on your doorstep.

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Date       07-11-91 12:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject     Jahovah's Witnesses

 PL> When one tells on what will happen in the future, I interpret
 PL> that as a prediction. When they claim to have spoken in the name
 PL> of the Lord, I call it a prophecy. Remember, The Watchtower
 PL> claims they are God's sole mouthpiece. If this is true, how
 PL> could they have been wrong on so many accounts? Could your God
 PL> make a mistake? Could the man you follow?

 You should examine your own faith and find out what everyone does with
 prophecies that are not fulfilled...  they spiritualize them.  For
 example, the Bible claims that Christ was coming to be King of Kings and
 establish the Kingdom of Heaven.  When he came and got Murdered instead,
 your faith probably did like most and said that the establishment of
 some kind of spiritual kingdom was the purpose of his mission.

 Another thing you may not realize that every prophecy carries with it a
 dual prophecy. For example the prophecy that Sodom would be destroyed if
 the people did not repent was fulfilled in the destruction of Sodom,
 whereas the same prophecy about Nineveh was fulfilled by sparing the
 city from destruction.

 If Adam and Eve ate the fruit they would die also implies if they did
 not eat they would live.

 I think when we evaluate someone's prophecy we should do it like we are
 reading an insurance contract and pay close attention to the fine print
 and all the conditions that come after  the 'except in the case of'
 clause.

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Date       07-11-91 12:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Paul Lenzmeier @ 960/1
Subject       Jehovah's Witnesses

 PL> If there is anything I can do in addition to praying for you,
 PL> please let me know.    Your Brother in Christ,    Paul.

 Yes, send your donations to Rev. Sun Myung Moon,  4 W. 43 rd Streen,
 Ny. Ny, 10036

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Date       07-11-91 20:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject     what?

 LW> >The real question is why can't you see the continuity between
 LW> >my ideas and the Bible.  You'll have to answer that one.
 LW> >Just like the people of Jesish persuasion will have to explain
 LW> >why they don't accept the New Testament.
 LW>
 LW> Terry
 LW>
 LW> Why can't I see the continuity?
 LW>
 LW> 1 Tim.6:3-5
 LW>    "If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not
 LW>     agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ,
 LW>     and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is


 The revelation revealed by Rev Sun Myung Moon is sound words and does
 conform to godliness.  However I do understand that you do not yet
 understand his revelation.  Most people unfortunately form their opinion
 from second hand information.

 LW> Now, all you have to do is show where Jesus taught YOUR
 LW> interpretation of the scriptures.

 You still don't understand the meaning of this scripture:

 MAR 1:27    And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned
             among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new
             doctrine [is] this?

 ACS 17:19   And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying,
             May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest,
             [is]?

 I truthfully don't see any difference at all between your reaction and
 that of those who were hearing Jesus' message for the first time.

 You have reacted just like these people who questioned Jesus' message on
 the basis that it was new.  Jesus brought new truth.  The object of
 God's heart is not the people of ancient Biblical history, it is the
 people who are living today.  God is working here and now to elevate
 man's spiritual level and man's understanding by giving us new truth.

 I find it very confusing that so many people pray for and believe that
 God will take action again like He did when He sent His son, but when
 God does act, the vast majority of people reject His efforts to help.

 "New wine must be put into fresh wineskins.   The time will come when I
 will tell you plainly of the father."

 The time is now.  God wants to be a Grand Father and the messiah must
 return in the flesh and build a God centered family, bringing sinless
 children into the world.    This is the mission that Adam was given and
 failed to fulfill.  This is also the mission Jesus came to fulfill but
 was denied the opportunity because of the hostility and faithlessness he
 was confronted with.  This is also the mission that Rev. Moon is trying
 to accomplish, even though the very people God blessed and prepared to
 support him do not know the time of their visitation.

 I'm sorry to say that if the messiah does come in your own lifetime and
 you do not recognize him for whatever great reason you may have, you
 will live in eternal deep regret.  You should at least make a serious
 condition and even fast for a few days and demand that God make things
 clear to you.  It is not only you that will live with the consequences
 of your mistake, but all your descendants as well.  They will remember
 you just as we remember those who were living at the time Jesus was on
 earth.

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Date       07-11-91 23:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ron Powers
Subject    Jesus' Resurrection

 RP> walked through  wall or materialized a body. The simple fact is,
 RP> God is not limited to the physical laws like we are. If Jesus
 RP> wanted to be inside a locked room, then He would be inside the
 RP> locked room.

 How did the nails hold him on the cross ?

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Date       07-11-91 23:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ron Powers
Subject    The Watchtower, In Apprec

 RP>     I have had many Witnesses ask me for donations for the
 RP> "Watchtower" and "Awake" magazines. They said that the donation
 RP> was just to cover the cost of printing. One time I asked the
 RP> Witness how much he thought it cost to print a copy of the
 RP> "Watchtower". He said a quarter (the amount of the donation).
 RP> That issue had 14 million copies, which would come out to 3.5
 RP> million dollars for the printing of that one issue.

 Did you give the quarter ?   I would guess that they made slightly less
 than 3.5 million on that issue.  < grin >

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Date       07-12-91 10:36:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> Terry, as I said before, we cannot look at 1 or 2 verses and
 CR> draw conclusions
 CR> from this. We have to look at what the ENTIRE Bible says on the
 CR> subject. The dead are conscious of nothing. Satan transforms
 CR> himself into an angel of light (in hopes
 CR> of tricking people).

 All religious movements begin with someone having a spiritual
 experience.     Where did your founder get his revelation ?     If you
 believe what you are saying then you have to assume that an angel of
 light started your movement and has tricked you.  I have read numbers of
 messages to you that seem to indicate that a lot of people believe this
 is exactly what happened.

 However I disagree.  I believe Mr. Russel had a some kind of experience
 with genuine repesentatives from heaven. And so did Joseph Smith and a
 lot of other folks.  However I think their experience is not clearly
 understood or conveyed to their followers.   Makes me wonder how clearly
 I understand the message Jesus Christ gave to Rev. Moon.

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Date       07-12-91 10:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> of tricking people). There is NO place of torment. How clear can
 CR> the Scriptures get??

 Well I don't  believe in eternal damnation because I have experienced
 the love of God and I know first hand that God isn't going to leave any
 of his children in eternal bondage.  I believe that God's love is
 stronger than Satan's ability to keep man in his dominion forever.

 However, in responding to your question about the clarity of scripture,
 you must realize by now that your ability to see so clearly ( and right
 through things ) is not shared by everyone.     I have reported to you
 numerous scriptures of the deceased encountering living people.   How
 many references to this unconscious state have you come up with ?

 You should pick the book "Life in the World Unseen" and " More about
 Life in the World Unseen"   by  Anthony Borgia.

 I would have to conclude that as a result of you witnessing to me about
 you faith that you believe demons have more power than good spirits, (it
 seems that good spirits can't do much) and at the same time evil spirits
 are sleeping because God doesn't want to punish them.  Haven't you ever
 wondered how evil sleeping spirits can do their evil deceptive work ?

 I don't believe God is out to punish anyone, however that does not
 exclude a person from suffering the CONSEQUENCES  of violating heavenly
 law.

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Date       07-12-91 14:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject        Parents Of Jesus

 MS> Zecharias (you still can't seem to read and get his name right;
 MS> Zecharias was a priest, but not the high priest.  Zechariah was
 MS> a prophet in Old Testamenttimes who had
 MS> been dead for several hundred years by the time Mary was born.)
 MS> Terry, it is exactly this way in that you rape and warp Scripture
 MS> that causes us to know that what you are trying to push is false.

 Just forget it then.  You don't want to learn anything. You are
 convinced that I'm just writing messages to try to trick someone. You
 don't know my heart at all.  You will never learn unless you figure out
 what Jesus meant about becoming as a child.

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Date       07-13-91 08:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Jesus

 CR> With this kind of logic, I suppose you believe that king
 CR> Nebuchadnezzar was Jesus Christ, because both were called `King
 CR> of Kings.' Or maybe that Jesus' disciples were actually Jesus
 CR> because they were called `light of the world.'  ??
 CR>
 CR> And about Jesus being the `Almighty"? Nowhere in the Bible is
 CR> Jesus quoted as being the Almighty. Go figure..

 Looks like you are getting tougher.  You are looking like a seasoned
 pro in this conference.  I didn't think you would last this long. Good
 for YOU !

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Date       07-13-91 16:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Reynolds
Subject    Anabaptists

 PR> I wish it was that funny, though. It think it is tragic that
 PR> believers get so proud of their doctrine that they alienate
 PR> themselves from other believers.

 I could not agree more, but what can be done to unite people of all
 faiths ?   It appears to me that the body of christ is in sad shape. I
 don't see enough harmony and unity to deal with even the simplest of
 problems.  What kind of situation will Jesus find when he does return ?

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Date       07-13-91 16:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         B J
Subject     CAIN

 BJ> TB> First, you should consider using your real name.
 BJ>
 BJ> In regard to my real name, those are my real initials belonging
 BJ> to my real
 BJ> name.  If by real name you mean full name, I find the use of my
 BJ> full name at
 BJ> times to hinder my discussions within the echo, I hope you do
 BJ> not find this
 BJ> offensive.  It was not intended so.

 I understand.  However I do not allow my users to use alias names and I
 don't think I can make an allowance for you.  My understanding is that
 no alias names are allowed on Fidonet at all.  Sorry but I'm going to
 have to include your initials in my insulate.dat file and lock you out
 until you abide by the rules and use your real name.  I do regret my
 users will not have the opportunity to have dialogue with you.

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Date       07-13-91 16:34:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority

 WC>     If your children were lost (spiritually) you would be
 WC> totally incapable of saving them. It is impossible for you to do
 WC> anything to earn their salvation.That was accomplished by the
 WC> finished work of Jesus. At best you can only teach
 WC> them what the Scripture has to say and a love and respect for
 WC> God and His holiness. Anything else is a waste of effort because
 WC> it cannot save them.

 First, I was talking about what I would do if I were God and I lost my
 children.   You don't seem to understand that man fell because of his
 failure to fulfill his portion or responsibility in obedience to the
 commandment.  Since man made the mistake, man must also participate in
 keeping his end of the covenant and fulfilling his portion of
 responsibility.   If salvation were simply up to God we would have to
 assume He does not want man to be saved or He would have done the saving
 right after the fall.  ...or He really doesn't love us that much.

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Date       07-13-91 16:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority

 WC> TB>What kind of sigh do you want to see ?
 WC>     How about making the sun move backwards 15 degrees. Or maybe
 WC> walking on water like across Lake Pontchartrain. Calm a
 WC> hurricane. There are any number of small things like that which
 WC> would be accept-able. I did not include
 WC> the raising of the dead because that still happens. Maybe turn the
 WC> Mississippi River into blood for three days.

 You still wouldn't believe. Think of all the miracles Jesus did and the
 people still MURDERED him.   Moses worked more miracles that did Jesus
 but that did not make Moses the Christ.

 No, you better seek truth and understanding through prayer and communion
 with God, rather than looking for someone who can make an elephant
 disappear or do some other kind of amusing tricks.

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Date       07-13-91 16:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Power and Authority

 WC> I see healings and other miracles which authenticate the
 WC> preached word. There has been
 WC> no evidence forthcoming to authenticate your claims. Nor is
 WC> there going to be and we both know it.

 You seem to think the mission of the messiah is to turn water to wine
 and do other amusing things, but that is not what the Messiah comes to
 do.

 Look at Jesus' frustration when his mother wanted him to make a small
 miracle.

 JOH 2:3     And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto
             him, They have no wine.
 JOH 2:4     Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?

 You must know that miracles do not come free.  They come at a cost of
 spiritual merit:

 MAR 5:30    And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had
             gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said,
             Who touched my clothes?

 Knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him.   Think about it
 Walter.  Try for once to understand something I am sharing with you.

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Date       07-13-91 16:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dave Kenady
Subject    The "fruit" Of The Tree

 DK> felt shame.  I'm not sure it was even because of their physical
 DK> nakedness or
 DK> because of just the feeling of shame and did the only thing they
 DK> could think
 DK> to do -- cover themselves physically.

 Why their nakedness ?  In God's words:  "Who told you that you were
 naked ?"

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Date       07-13-91 20:38:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    Images (Definition)

 TB> Should we venerate "saints" as intercessors with God, perhaps
 TB> using images of them as aids in our worship?
 TB> Do worshipers have in mind primarily the person represented by
 TB> an image, or are some images viewed as being superior to others?

 Well I'm sure any dialogue between us will be interesting since we both
 have the same initials.  We should be writing a lot of message saying
 "I didn't say that "  < grin >

 Anyway, it appears to me that you probably don't have the little statue
 of Jesus hanging from your rear view mirror ?     How do you feel about
 other symbols like those used at the eucharist ?

 How does something like this grab you:


 NUM 21:8    And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and
             set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every
             one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
 NUM 21:9    And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole,
             and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man,
             when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

 Seems an Idol saved a few folks at least one time ?


 By the way, I'm not suggesting the worship of idols, I just wanted you
 to think.

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Date       07-13-91 20:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject    Mary

 PV>     Why should I go to anyone alive to ask for intercessory
 PV> prayer?  If I can pray for you, for your needs, what gives me
 PV> that right?  Yes, Jesus is the One Mediator (according to
 PV> Oneness, to Himself <wicked grin>) but, aren't we members
 PV> of the Body of Christ?  Don't we share in His Divine Life, in
 PV> His Grace, in His Power over the world?  So how come we don't
 PV> share in His Mediation? And if so, why not the dead?  They are
 PV> alive to the Lord, since God is the God of live people,
 PV> not of deads.  Aren't the brethren in heaven as much a part of
 PV> the Church as we are?  Why should they be disqualified because
 PV> of the accidents of their deaths?

 Even though I am not 'into' this, I have to say you gave a very good
 answer.      It did bring this to mind:

 JAM 5:14    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the
             church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil
             in the name of the Lord:
Date       07-14-91 09:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Justin Bramblet
Subject     trinity...???

 JB> God, then Jesus must be Jehovah. There is no other way to make
 JB> the Bible fit together. Jesus is God,

 But Justin, if Jesus is God then these verses don't fit together:


 MAR 13:32    But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not
              the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the
              Father.

 If Jesus is God, shouldn't he know everything that God knows ?

 JOH 4:24    God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
             [him] in spirit and in truth.

 Jesus was both flesh and spirit so he doesn't fit as God here either.

 JOH 8:54    Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing:
             it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he
             is your God:

 Here Jesus said that God was someone else the people should honor, he
 called that other 'someone' his father.


 1TI 2:5     For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and
             men, the man Christ Jesus;

 A mediator goes in between.  If either of us had a disagreement, then
 the mediator would be a 3 rd party.

 COL 3:1     If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which
             are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 Talking about 'fitting',  here you would have God sitting at His own
 right hand ?

 JOH 5:19    Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I
             say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what
             he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth,
             these also doeth the Son likewise.

 So now Jesus can't do whatever he wants, only what God shows him to do.

 1JO 4:14    And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the
             Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

 Now God sent God ?   We must be dealing with separate identities.
 How many gods are there ?

 2JO 1:9     Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine
             of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine
             of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
                                ^^^^
 See, the word 'both' ?  What does this indicate ?  How many gods are
 there ?

 GEN 1:27    So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God
             created he him; male and female created he them.

 God's image is male and female.  At most Jesus could be only %50 God
 since he wasn't a woman.

 2CO 4:4     In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of
             them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
             gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine
             unto them.

 Clearly this indicates Jesus is in the image of God.  If this makes
 Jesus God then Mount Rushmore is 4 presidents. < grin >  ...thats one up
 on the trinity.

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Date       07-14-91 19:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Jahovah's Witnesses

 CR> Yes men can make mistakes. Jesus' own apostles at times, had
 CR> wrong expectations.Did'nt they make the mistake of thinking that
                           ^ didn't
 CR> Jesus was going to set up His kingdom in their day?

 They were correct to expect the Kingdom to come at their time. There is
 no predictions of two comings in the Old Testament.  Something went
 wrong and the fulfillment of God's will was prolonged just as it had
 been on several other occasions, like when Adam and Eve disobeyed.

 Jesus came to bring the Kingdom of heaven just as he AND John had
 preached:

 MAT 3:2     And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 MAT 4:17    From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent:
             for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 MAT 10:7    And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at
             hand.
 MAR 1:15    And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is
             at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 There was no mention or reference to a 2,000 year delay.  The
 faithlessness of the people who God had prepared to receive Jesus lead
 to Satan's invasion and then Jesus' death.   So without the Marriage of
 the Lamb, there could be no sinless children and no kingdom would come.
 God's providence for restoration was frustrated and Jesus sacrifice made
 a foundation for the messiah to come again.

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Date       07-14-91 19:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gil Wilkes
Subject       Jehovah's Witnesses

 GW> TB> Yes, send your donations to Rev. Sun Myung Moon,  4 W. 43 rd
 GW> Streen, TB> Ny. Ny, 10036
 GW>  i see you've not throttled down your wonderful sense of humor.

 Too bad only so few can recognize a little humour.   It seems that
 understanding humour in this conference is as rare as understanding
 truth.  < grin >

 GW> Would you please consider accepting Christ as revealed by the
 GW> Church and becoming baptisedand confirmed as a Roman Catholic?

 I'll get back to you on that...

 GW> You wouldn't get any less that persecution
 GW> you seem to enjoy as a follower of Rev Moon, i promise you.

 Don't believe that I'm really as proud of being persecuted as it may
 appear. I don't think I have made an issue of the glory of being taken
 as a mindless idiot.    I really didn't wake up one morning and think
 'maybe I'll find a cult to join today and spend the rest of my life
 being laughed at and misunderstood.'  If God would have left me alone,
 I most likely would have left Him alone.

 GW> We really
 GW> need a few people like you, that is, with your sense of humor;
 GW> so send us your resume, and we'll get back with you <grin>

 What a coincidence !           We are taking resumes' TOO !

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Date       07-14-91 20:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> >  However I disagree.  I believe Mr. Russel had a some kind of
 CR> > experience  with genuine repesentatives from heaven. And so
 CR> > did Joseph Smith and a  lot of other folks.
 CR>
 CR> If you were to believe this, then what your really trying to say
 CR> is that there is more than one true `Faith.' And we know that
 CR> this cannot be possible.

 Your problem is that your vision is too narrow.  Truth is big enough
 that many people can share a slice of the pie.  We all must recognize
 that we have our own point of view, and no religious movement in history
 has yet had the whole truth in a jug with the stopper in their hand.

 You are using a computer and reading messages that were made possible
 from people who are experts in many fields.  Some of them know how to
 make the electricity, some of them know how to provide the phone service
 that transmits this message, some of them know how to build different
 components of your system like the memory and processor chips, the
 monitor and keyboard,  some of them know how to write the software etc.
 etc.

 Do you think all this was accomplished by people with attitudes that
 they knew everything and had the monopoly to all truth ?  Do you think
 the field of religion is smaller or larger than the technology and
 knowledge that was required to get this message from my head to yours ?

 How can you even begin to think you know so much ?  The first sign of
 knowledge is humility.  Something that indicates both of us are stupid
 as hell.

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Date       07-14-91 20:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> >  I would have to conclude that as a result of you witnessing
 CR> > to me about  you faith that you believe demons have more
 CR> > power than good spirits,
 CR>
 CR> How in the world did you conclude this? Of course demons DO NOT
 CR> have more power than the angels!

 You told me that any revelation I may have had was the work of a demon.
 That demons testify to Christ to fool people.  Want me to dig up the
 message ?   Never mind, I will do it anyway:


 Date       07- 2-91 10:38:11
 From       Carla Rygula
 To         Terry Blount
 Subject    Re:    messages

  > with folks in
   >  the spiritual world ?  I remember you just fluffing this
    > off by saying
     >  that they we could only experience visiting demons.  I
      > find it strange
       >  that demons would want to help people and testify to Jesus.
       I don't find it strange at all. Because Satan wants to help
       further the lie
       that the dead are NOT unconscious, when the Bible tells us they
       ARE unconscious.
       Who would I believe? The Bible of course

 Yes I do just `fluff' this off. And so should all others who believes
 God's words over Satans actions.
 ======================== End  July 2 nd message =================

 What have you ever told us about the work of good angels ?
 You called the work of Angels testifying to Christ 'words of Satan's
 actions.'


 CR> >  I don't believe God is out to punish anyone, however that
 CR> > does not  exclude a person from suffering the CONSEQUENCES
 CR> > of violating heavenly  law.

 CR> And they WILL suffer the consequences, only not in some fiery
 CR> torment. But to die and NOT gain eternal life, is enough
 CR> punishment for anyone !

 Yes but if your loved ones were not to gain eternal life, don't you
 think you would suffer too ?   How can you 'whoop' it up at the old
 Kingdom Hall while those you love are missing ?  Kinda sounds like the

 I tell you here, now, and today, that you cannot go to God alone.  He
 will only send you out to resurrect and bring home your brothers and
 sisters, living or dead !   There is simply NO such thing as INDIVIDUAL
 SALVATION.   When you discover the heart of our original parent, God,
 that's the first thing you will learn.

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Date       07-15-91 12:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Chris Boerma
Subject     Death ..

 CB>     1) A person dies.
 CB>     2) While died, he or she experiences nothing, hears nothing,
 CB> sees      nothing, thinks nothing.
 CB>     3) On Judgement day, the died are raised.
 CB>     4) Now the soul are sent heaven or hell

 No just sleeping.

 CB>     5) Once in their respective places the souls can see, hear,
 CB> feel,      and think.

 No only those who believed their doctrine.

 I'm not a Jw but I think they are strong optimist. They believe the
 worst that can happen is to anyone is a comatose state of unwariness.
 You know like the early 60's song that said when your are good you go to
 live with God but if you are bad, when you are dead you are dead.

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Date       07-15-91 19:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject         Parents Of Jesus

 MS> Wrong, Terry.  I love to learn.  And as soon as you start
 MS> getting you facts straight, and quit trying to pass on
 MS> out-and-out lies, maybe you will be able to learn a thing or
 MS> two.

 You should re-read your words. You say you want to learn then say I am
 passing out lies.  With that is the kind of attitude how can you
 possibly learn.  What if you went to school to learn to become an auto
 mechanic and took the attitude your teacher was passing out lies ?  I
 surely wouldn't want you to work on my automobile.

 Well you probably don't know that I was taught all the ideas that you
 are preaching when I was growing up. When I turned 25 ( 15 yrs ago ), I
 started having spiritual experiences and was lead to understand things
 that go far beyond the understand I had when I was on your level.

 Your attitude must like a child if you want to understand what God is
 currently doing.  You have demonstrated something a child would never
 do... label something you can't understand as a lie.

 Sorry, you are stuck till you change your attitude.

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Date       07-15-91 19:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ed Witek
Subject    resurrection

 EW>      TB> How did the nails hold him on the cross ?
 EW>
 EW> The same way the fish stayed in his stomach when he ate with the
 EW> disciples
 EW> after the resurrection after having passed through a wall.
 EW> What he wills, happens! Laws of Physics do not effect him if he
 EW> doesn't want them to. He came to die on the cross and he did.

 What an imagination !   How did anyone ever convince you to believe such
 a thing ?  Do you want to buy some low-level land in Florida ?  < grin >

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Date       07-16-91 09:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Harlow Campbell
Subject    Good Vs Evil

 HC> Were we you have a good God, it would be a dull existence. Only
 HC> an evil creator
 HC> can give us an existence that is not so dull and boring as to be
 HC> trivial.


 Sounds like another person who likes to eat something rotten and awful
 tasting in order to enjoy his steak.

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Date       07-16-91 09:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject     IS JESUS ALSO MICHAEHA

 TB> action against them. So the evidence indicates that the Son of
 TB> God was known as Michael
 TB> before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his
 TB> return to heaven where he resides as the glorifed spirit Son of
 TB> God.

 Why do religious folk always want to lump all good thing together ?  You
 know, like they do with the trinity... making God Jesus and the Holy
 Spirit one thing... and now the same folk who so strongly oppose this
 type of reasoning start doing it themselves by lumping  Jesus with an
 unfallen angel and calling them 'one'.

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Date       07-16-91 10:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Washington Times

 PM> Terry, your post interested me, as I am ignorant about who
 PM> started this newspaper, and what is the Barney Frank thing?

 Rev. Sun Myung found the Washington Times Newspaper and supported it
 for the past 8 or so years.

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Date       07-17-91 09:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject          Parents Of Jesue

 LW> your teaching are backed up.  Sorry!  I just happen to believe
 LW> that the Author of this text book knows ALOT more about it then
 LW> you ever will.`

 Why are you trying to compare me to God ?   I never claimed to know more
 than God, only more than you !  < grin >    It seems to be you that
 doesn't know the carburetor from the battery.  Listen to your teacher.

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Date       07-17-91 09:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject       UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> Speak for yourself. I don't know what your talking about. I
 CR> would'nt know a thing if it were'nt for Jehovah's organization.
 CR> They provide the entire organiztion with the same knowledge,
 CR> through the Holy Scriptures, of course. Something, that
 CR> all other Faiths refuse to do.

 Who is intrepreting these Scriptures ?  How did they get to  know more
 than my minister and the elders in my church ?

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Date       07-17-91 09:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject       UNCONSCIOUS

 CR> False Religions are the work of Satan and his demons. What did
 CR> Jesus tell the Religious leaders of His day, (even though they
 CR> studied the old Testament)?
 CR> John 8:44:
 CR>           "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to
 CR> do the desires of your father.

 Because ALL fallen people are born of fornication. Jesus did not limit
 his words to discredit a particular faith.  Back up 3 verses and look at
 this:

 JOH 8:41    Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him,
      We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Jesus did not agree with them because he knew Adam and Eve were never
 blessed in marriage by God, they had no sinless children.  Jesus did not
 find the faith and support to get married, he had no sinless children.
 We are still waiting on the Second coming of Christ and the Marriage
 Supper of the Lamb. Eventually God will establish HIS family on earth
 and the blood lineage of those children will not be connected to the
 fall or to SATAN !


 CR> He told them they were from Satan. Can you imagine how surprised
 CR> they were?

 Yes, I have been telling you the same thing and you can't grasp the
 significance of the Marriage of the Lamb either.  You were just as
 surprised when I told you that God's goal is to establish a true family
 through Christ and his physical bride and bring sinless Grand Children
 into the world.   Nothing has changed in 2,000 years.  People still
 don't understand the goal God gave to his children in Gen 1:28.  The
 mission of Christ is to become the true father, true husband, and parent
 sinless children.  This will destroy the work of the devil.  When Christ
 starts fathering sinless children who grow up to be messiah's themselves
 what will happen to the kingdom of hell that Satan has established on
 earth ?   Satan surely doesn't want to see God's Grand Children coming
 into the world and growing up to become messiah's themselves.  That's
 why he was so anxious to enter into Judas and murder Jesus before he
 could marry and establish a true family.

 CR> Just as in our day. They claim to believe in Christ, but they
 CR> deny His Father and Creator, Jehovah God, with their false
 CR> trinity Doctrine. Or, there are others who don't even want admit
 CR> to the coming of Jesus.

 No the real problem is that people don't want to admit they are of their
 father the devil and CHANGE !  Purification is very difficult. But it is
 the price that must be paid in order to have the right to the tree of
 life.

 CR> Yes I can claim I have the truth, the whole truth and NOTHING
 CR> BUT the truth.

 Do you want me to re-post the message from your Jw friends who said you
 a new member and still lacking in some areas of understanding ?

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Date       07-17-91 11:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Meat is Crops

 WC>     But I do know where you are coming from. The Hindus do not
 WC> eat meat. In fact they believe that cows are also a part of god.
 WC> Until this century they had thousands starving to death while
 WC> the cows ate the corps and no one was alowed to eat the cow. And
 WC> there was certain- ly enough beef to have fed the population in
 WC> the lean times. You desire of such a society is shared by
 WC> millions of Hindus. You have only to study the Indian culture to
 WC> know the conditions to which you would reduce society.

 Most Excellent.     Good reply.

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Date       07-17-91 15:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject     JESUS' RESURRECTION

 PB>     No, I am saying that he does not have any blood in his
 PB> body.  All of it was given as an atonement for our sins.  Jesus'
 PB> physical body was changed into an incorruptible physical body
 PB> which does not need blood in order to live.

 Philip, are you sure Jesus had enough blood for atonement for all the
 sins of everyone?

 You speak as if quantity was important ?

 As far as the change in his body, after the resurrection people did not
 see his physical body. They were witnessing his spiritual body, just as
 the spiritual body of Elijah and Moses was seen at the mount of
 transfiguration.  The spiritual body does not need physical blood. So
 you are correct about the incorruptibility of his body.

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Date       07-17-91 19:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Philip Brown
Subject    JESUS' RESURRECTION

 PB>     We have a different understanding of what a 'spiritual' body
 PB> is. If I understand you correctly, you believe that it is a
 PB> spirit being. I on the other hand believe that it refers to a
 PB> physical body with spiritual qualities.
     ^^^^^^^^   ( substantial )

 PB>     The natural body of man is corruptible because it has human
 PB> limitations, but the spiritual body would be empowered by God
 PB> and therefore be incorruptible-- although it is physical,
 PB> nothing can destroy it.                         ^^^^^^^^

 Change this word to substantial and we agree.

 I think all God's children have both Spiritual and Physical bodies.  The
 ones who have developed their spiritual bodies through faith and
 obedience to the commandments of God are different.  That is why artist
 portray Jesus and Saints with the halo.  When they appear to living
 humans, they appear substantially different from demons. Obviously no
 one should confuse Jesus with a demon.   However, most people who have
 died and gone into spiritual world were not extremely holy nor extremely
 evil.  This is where most of the confusion comes from. When someone on a
 lower spiritual level appears to a person (unless the person recognizes
 them as their parent, grand parent, relative etc.) they don't know
 whether or not to trust anything revealed at this meeting. However, we
 must consider and wonder how people responded to those resurrected
 saints in Jesus day.   How will people respond to the holy myriads that
 are suppose to return with Christ.

 By the way, this strictly contradicts the Jw's teaching about dead
 people being unconscious.  However I doubt they will accept it.

 JDE 1:14    And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,
 saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
 JDE 1:15    To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are
 ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly
 committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have
 spoken against him.

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Date       07-17-91 19:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         You
Subject    MESSAGE FROM REV MOON


                        Rev. Moon's message to You

      What sets Jesus apart from all other religious leaders?  First, he
 said, he was the only begotten son of God, and therefore, that he
 possessed the entire love of God.  When you have you first child, he or
 she is the center of a tremendous outflow of your love. If human beings
 feel such ecstatic joy with their first child, what about God? Because
 God sees His own image in his first son and through him can manifest His
 image to the entire world, you know how critical that person is.  What
 should that son do? Does God need only a son?  God knew ahead of time
 that He needed a pair, which would include a daughter.  We have to talk
 about God's daughter, especially here in America!  God will be more
 accepted in this country when we talk about His only begotten daughter
 as well.

      A son living by himself would be like a person with one foot. Jesus
 knew that God was looking forward to having His only begotten daughter,
 so Jesus looked forward to restoring a woman in that position. This is
 why a central theme in the New Testament is that of bride and bride-
 groom.  Christians today have to settle for a rather abstract view of
 this marriage relationship, saying that men as well as women are in the
 position of bride to Jesus, and not only that but that the church as
 well.  What has the church as an institution to do with Jesus' bride?
 Without question there is a certain symbolic meaning here, but God's
 ultimate desire is to give a physical bride to His son.

      Jesus was the King of Kings; in that sense he was the greatest
 institution so he should remain single the rest of his life, right? No,
 he was human and needed a wife like all other men.  Would he sit on his
 throne and proclaim the single way of life as the most holy, dictating
 it to his subjects? Such a teaching would be a crippled teaching.

      Suppose Jesus had been blessed with a perfect bride.  Do you think
 that because he was a holy man, Jesus should have kept five feet away
 from her all the time?  Would he have kissed his bride only for the sake
 of some sacrifice, or because he really wanted to show his love to her?
 As a holy man would he have looked at his bride just from time to time
 and then gone away, or would he have had fervent love in his heart to
 pour out upon his bride?  Would he have been a sinner if he had done
 that?

      Jesus came to fulfill the will of God, and to do so he had to
 restore his own bride.  The entire Christian world is shaken at hearing
 this revelation, and because of it Christians have called me a heretic.
 Jesus can hear all this conversation going on here on earth. Do you
 think he would smile at hearing me say he should have had his own bride,
 or do you think he remained single because he thought that was the most
 holy way of life?  Who created men and women, and who was Jesus' parent?
 God created men and women to become one, to marry and live as husband
 and wife.  That is the holiest relationship of all in God's creation.
 Genesis says that God created Adam and Eve; God never said "It is good"
 until after he created both Adam and Eve.  Many religions have advocated
 a life of celibacy. The Unification Church is saying that families, not
 individuals, are the building blocks of the Kingdom of Heaven.

      Jesus not only said that he was God's only begotten son, he also
 denied the world.  No matter how beautiful or wonderful the world seems,
 it was nothing in the sight of God, so Jesus' ministry had to begin with
 denial of the world.  Jesus came as the only begotten son to restore
 God's only daughter and make God's only begotten family, nation and
 world. Jesus truly occupied the position of central saint because he was
 the most direct manifestation of God.

      Before God sent His champion Jesus Christ, He prepared the field
 with the chosen nation of Israel. This was the foundation for the
 Messiah's coming.  The people of Israel could have perfected themselves
 and their nation if they had united with the coming of the Lord. The
 kingdom of God would have been a physical reality at that time.

      The Messiah came to the nation of Israel, the universal alter, and
 the people were supposed to unite with him completely and thus be
 offered together on that altar. However, that unity was not there.  If a
 man or woman is willing to die for the Messiah then actual death may
 not be necessary. This has been a tradition value in Christianity, but
 we can see that compared to this standard modern Christianity has
 deviated from Jesus' teaching.  We can live again by being completely
 willing to submit ourselves and die without making any demand.  If a
 person is willing to die then that person lives and can dwell in heaven.
 This is what Jesus taught.  When we gain our personal lives, however,
 that's only the beginning; then we have to die for the rest of humanity.
 And, we must make such a relationship with them that they are
 willing to die for us, and on that foundation we can go to heaven.

      Do you think that sinners rejoice because they had finally met the
 man who could free them from sin?  Jesus brought with him all the love
 that was lost, but which response is more likely when the Messiah comes
 -- that people will be happy and forget what they have done, or that
 they have to overcome a great turmoil of feeling before they can feel
 worthy of going to their savior?  Can a person ignore what he or she has
 done wrong and come to the savior, or should he or she feel so much
 remorse over the gravity of sin in the past that he doesn't even know
 how to properly conduct himself?  It is more likely that when one
 realizes the magnitude of one's sin one would tremble at the mere
 thought of the awesome difference between oneself and the Messiah.

      When the Messiah comes to liquidate sin, is the sinner going to
 tell the Messiah what to do?  Instead of telling Jesus what he should
 do, our feeling should be that we cannot even speak at all.  Upon seeing
 him, the first thing you must experience is the shedding of so many
 tears that you cannot even see around you.  God cannot be pleased with
 us if we live a self-centered way.  I met Jesus personally, and I
 received a revelation through which I learned that God's grief is great.
 His heart is broken. Today God is working ceaselessly for the ultimate
 salvation of all humanity

      Jesus' intention was directed only at building the Kingdom of God
 here on earth, but practically speaking, what is the Kingdom of God? the
 Bible doesn't say clearly, but the Kingdom of God Jesus was trying to
 build here on earth followed a simple teaching:  As much as you love God
 your Father, that much you must love your country, your society and your
 own home.  When  that one tradition of love links every aspect of life,
 the Kingdom of God will become a reality.  When everyone worships one
 God as their common Father then no barriers will remain -- no national
 boundaries or walls of language or denominations. Every barrier can be
 broken down.

      If Jesus has just come to establish a new religion then he was not
 the Messiah.  In reality Jesus couldn't care less about religion; what
 he cared about was a God-centered kingdom and that kingdom cannot be
 built by religion.  That kingdom will be built by the family.  Jesus
 came to build the first true family so that he could bring God down to a
 real home where He could dwell as the sovereign, as the true Father.
 There is no other way God's will could be fulfilled.  There is no other
 way to build the Kingdom of God here on earth.

      But Jesus was not accepted by his nation.  Instead of welcome, he
 met rejection at every level.  Jesus was denied the opportunity to take
 a bride in the position of restored Eve, and to establish the first
 God-centered heavenly family. Instead, he was nailed to the cross.
 Thus, the mission of Jesus Christ was left incomplete on earth. And
 this is why Jesus promised his second coming.  Jesus Christ must come
 again to consummate the mission of the Messiah.

      Let me repeat: Jesus was the perfected Adam and his mission was the
 restoration of humankind.  The crucial step was to restore his bride,
 Eve.  Jesus was a man, one with God, but he was not God the Father. When
 he returns to earth he will come as a man in the position of the third
 Adam.

      These are revelations to me from God, and I want you to understand
 fully the main points. God intended Adam and Eve to come together in
 heavenly matrimony in the Garden of Eden.  Since it was not realized at
 that time, God intended Jesus to fulfill this marriage in his time. But
 it was not realized by Jesus either, because no one had faith in him as
 Messiah on earth.  Jesus was the second Adam.  It was God's will for him
 to be blessed in heavenly matrimony with the second Eve, his restored
 bride.  God intended him to bring forth upon this earth his own sinless
 children.  Then Jesus and his bride would have become the True Parents
 for humankind, and all humankind would have found life by grafting onto
 them. In Revelation, at the end of the Bible, it shows us clearly that
 the end of God's ideal is the perfect man and perfect woman; when they
 rejoice, embracing in holy matrimony, this is inexchangeable for the
 entire universe.  Once God has achieved this high ideal as a standard,
 then there will be more such individuals and families coming into
 existence; this is what God has been working for.  So this is the
 highest ideal of God and the highest ideal of humanity.  This is the
 deepest desire of God and also the deepest desire of humanity.  Only
 around this one center can all people and God eternally be happy and
 one.

      Jesus cautioned the people: "You are of your father the devil,"
 because at the beginning point of human history we were born Satan's
 children.  By the restoration of True Parents we will be reborn as
 children of out heavenly Father, God.  This will mean full salvation as
 His true children, not merely salvation as the adopted children of which
 St. Paul writes ( Rom 8:23 ).

      God's will was destined fulfillment in Jesus' time.  That is why
 he is coming again.  In the book or Revelation, there is the prophecy of
 the marriage of the Lamb.  This marriage banquet will in fact take
 place.  True parents for all human kind will be realized in our time.
 God will bring forth His true family upon the face of the earth.  All
 people will be empowered to bring sinless children into the world.  This
 Heaven on earth will begin.  This will be the day of hope, the day of
 the coming of the Lord at the second advent.

      This is the day when God's original ideal will be realized for the
 first time.  This is the day when the dwelling of God is with men and
 women.  God will be full of joy.  His own son as perfected third Adam
 will initiate an entirely new history upon the earth. On that day, we
 shall become living images of God.  God will bring His kingdom ot earth.

      This ultimate realization of the ideal has been the hope of God as
 well as the hope for all humanity.  I pledge to you from the bottom of
 my heart that the realization of all this is at hand,  in the fulness of
 God's time.

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Date       07-18-91 09:32:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject     Images (Definition)

 TB> symbols are nothing but just that. But Idol are image of a
 TB> god.used as an object of worship.

 TB> Well I did some thinking. And I hope that you are not saying
 TB> that you do not know what a Idol is. You may need to do some study
 TB> on this subject.

 Yes, I need to study many things.  However your original message made no
 distinction/exception or mention of symbols.  It appears to me that you
 should tell us about that distinction  to help us avoid errors in our
 faith.

 Is the little statue of Jesus that Catholics kiss a symbol or an idol ?

 What is your criterion for classification.  The only people I know who
 worship idols are non-religious people who chase after non-spiritual
 assets.

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Date       07-18-91 16:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Stephens
Subject          Parents Of Jesue

 MS> TB>  Sorry, you are stuck till you change your attitude.
 MS> That's right.  I'm stuck in the arms of a loving Savior, who is
 MS> also preparing
 MS> a place for me in His Kingdom.  And where will you spend your
 MS> eternity, Terry?
 MS> If you don't change course, it will be with your Lord of the
 MS> Second Advent. But I doubt the actual location will be to your
 MS> liking....

 Seems you are getting upset ?   Are you suggesting I am going to Hell
 while you are being snuggled by the comforting arms of your savior ? You
 sure have a soothing doctrine.  No wonder you don't feel comfortable
 when you read my messages.   It is not so soothing when you realize you
 must change.  I know you want to go to the loving arms of your Savior
 but what about your ties to your father the devil.  Is he going to grant
 you the passport to leave his dominion ?    You first got to prove you
 don't belong to the evil one, no matter how many visas you have that
 permit you to enter your Savior's Kingdom.

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Date       07-20-91 08:02:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Robert Bennett
Subject     The Two Witnesses

 RB> TB>  It is so simple, and it makes sense that God's goal has
 RB> always been
 RB> TB>  to become a Grand Father and see the earth populated with
 RB> sinless TB>  children.
 RB>
 RB> Do you have *any* idea how silly that sounds to Christians?

 I suppose you haven't heard the really silly one about the virgin birth?
 Or the other one about a 3 headed God.∙I think they label that silly
 idea the 'Trinity'. Do you have  *any* idea how silly that sounds to
 people with common sense ?∙ < grin >

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Date       07-20-91 19:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject    Tract 2 (2/2): Blazing Tr

 PV>     It's sad to admit, but when the WT wants to carry out a
 PV> membership drive, it just come up with a new prediction.

 Too bad the Catholic Church hasn't learned from this.  I just heard
 that the number of Priest in America are down from over 30 thousand 20
 years ago to less than 8 thousand today.  Maybe you need to set a date ?
 < grin >

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Date       07-20-91 20:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject    I didn't forget...

 PV> PV> through seances. Interestingly enough, Rev. Moon claims that
 PV> PV> seances prove his messianic mission.  (cfr. "Divine
 PV> Principle," PV> 599ff).
 PV>     Somebody else wrote to you on the sense of this paragraph.
 PV> Suffice to say that I take all the persecution necessary as I
 PV> defend the Catholic truth.

 I should have known.  You would have sense enough to look at the end of
 the Divine Principle and see it has only 536 pages.  No wonder they are
 having trouble.  They don't have the official version.  < grin >

 PV>     John's mission was simple.  To announce the arrival of the
 PV> Messiah. Aftwerwards, he had to decrease as Jesus had to
 PV> increase (cfr. John 4:30).  He also said that his joy was
 PV> complete.

 I'm sorry I so frequently resort to simple logic, but pray tell why
 would Jesus be through with John ... the one person in the position to
 lead the people to have real/substantial faith in Jesus ?

 The problem between Jesus and John was the same ugly Cain Able problem
 raising it's head again.  John was older and the position of Cain and
 like Cain he could not humble himself to the person favored by God.
 His pride and jealousy resulted in John failing his mission.   Pure and
 simple !

Date       07-21-91 16:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Earl Shaft
Subject    Christianity

 ES> There is no excuse for the involvement of the church in commerce
 ES> and politics;

 Not unless you just simply want to give up those areas of society for
 Satan to rule.   I'm sure he approves of good men doing noting.

 Why do you think this country is better off being run by the immoral
 crew we now have in Washington ?

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Date       07-21-91 16:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Earl Shaft
Subject    Christianity

 ES> the moral standards of Western civilization; and thus has
 ES> Christianity unwittingseemed to sponsor a society which staggers
 ES> under the guilt of tolerating
 ES> science without
 ES> idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work,
 ES> pleasure without
 ES> restraint, knowledge without character, power without
 ES> conscience, and industry
 ES> without morality...

 Sounds like you are running for office ?    I would really vote for you.

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Date       07-21-91 16:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Faiths

 CR> only ONE true faith. And we all know which this is, don't we?
 CR> If not, let the record speak for itself.

 Are these kind of words the ones that were use to convert you to your
 faith ?  I know I wouldn't be a member of any organized religion that
 could not recognize the goodness in other religions.  Did you know that
 Jesus had the ability to see the goodness fallen man ?   Any group that
 claims association should inherit a little ability to see the goodness
 in people who have dedicated their life to God.  Don't you think ?

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Date       07-22-91 07:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Pedro Vega
Subject     I didn't forget...

 PV>     Two questions:  Is the quote itself accurate?  Can you get
 PV> me a good "official" copy?

 The word 'seance' does not exist at all in the DP. I just ran a scan for
 that word and it is not used.   Send me your address and I'll mail you
 the book, and a diskette with it typed out in ascii text format as well.
 The book has no index so you may find the files more helpful when
 scanning for subjects etc.

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Date       07-22-91 07:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Mcmindes
Subject    JESUS' RESURRECTION

 AM>    It is not just a "Jw's teaching" that the dead are
 AM> unconscious. Its in the Bible, and has been quoted here before.
 AM> How do you explain that the Bible
 AM> says the dead are conscious of nothing at all. Eccl 9:5-6

 Did you know that when someone quotes scripture to you that it is a good
 idea to look it up and see if they have take it out of context, or as
 Walter Coupes likes to say 'Extra-Biblical' usage.

 Let's consider Ecc. Chapter 9..

 ECC 9:3     This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the
             sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart
             of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in
             their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the
             dead.       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                          ^^^
                                          ^^^
 How interesting that the same scripture you are relying on to support
 your belief that the dead are conscious says that when a person dies,
 the 'madness in their hearts remains after death.   Don't you know that
 uncious people don't have madness in their heart ?   'Madness'  only
 exists in a state of 'consciousness'.   Your problem is that you don't
 understand the Biblical concept of life and death.

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Date       07-23-91 07:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject      Images (Definition)

 TB> TB>  What is your criterion for classification.
 TB>
 TB> The criterion is empolyed only in matters of judgment, an I am
 TB> not one to judge you. You have to make up your mine, if it is a
 TB> idol or not.
 ........
 TB> that. They think that they are a religious people. And there are
 TB> people that say that they are Christains that do worship idols
 TB> in there worship. After this letter, I hope that you may think
 TB> there are too.


 You first say that you are not one to judge....  then you say thea there
 are Christians that do worship idols.

 How can you say you are not making a judgement.  You are contradicting
 yourself.

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Date       07-23-91 10:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      Faiths

 CR> Well, lets take a look at the Bible account of Jesus day. I
 CR> did'nt hear of Jesus telling the Scribes and Pharisees, that
        ^  didn't
 CR> they were good in any. Jesus said, you can't slave for two
 CR> masters, its either one or the other. Either your for God,
 CR> or your for Satan.  If your for God, then He must be worshiped
 CR> with thuth. Not partial truth.  So even if a particular faith is
 CR> 99% in abiding by the Scriptures, it won't work, one has to be
 CR> 100% for the truth. Take it or leave it.

 So this logic leads you to believe that accusing and condemning folks
 leads them to accept your faith ?   I would like to challenge that
 assumption by asking you to evaluate the results of a message like this
 preached shortly after Jesus' death.  The speech I'm am referring to was
 delivered by St. Stephen.  He did a great job of making folks feel
 guilty, but their guilt did not lead to them repentance, it lead them
 to commit another sin and murder him.

 If you want to be successful, you have to evaluate your actions and see
 if they are consistent with your goals.  What is your goal ?

 We all can find fault with each other's religion and take a holier than
 thou posture, however it takes a saint to find that which is righteous,
 godly, and holy in others then multiply those characteristics.


 ROM 12:21   Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Date       07-23-91 11:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Glen Davis
Subject    Life after death

 GD> Thomas,
 GD>  I read a message from you recently mentioning your belief that
 GD> there is no consciousness after death.

 I think Jw's may be afraid of Ghost ?   They seem a little worried that
 they may exist  < grin >  so they try to deny that the spirit lives on.

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Date       07-23-91 15:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject           Parents Of JesJe

 LW> >I know you want to go to the loving arms of your Savior
 LW> >but what about your ties to your father the devil.
 LW> >Is he going to grant you the passport to leave his dominion ?
 LW>
 LW> Terry
 LW>
 LW> Nope.  Jesus has already granted a passport to all who believe.
 LW> I,m sure you know John 3:16???

 Yes, it says that God so loved the  * WORLD *

 How many people do you know that have crossed over this boundary to
 sacrifice themselves and live for the sake of the world ?

 The problem with our world is that there are two masters.  Satan is
 trying to claim ownership based on the fact that man united with him.
 Can God reach man directly or does He have certain boundaries to cross
 over ?  No matter how almighty He is,  He cannot work at random.  Even
 in dealing with man and Satan, God has to follow a certain covenant.
 What is that covenant ?  It is based on the principle of true love that
 begins with Him.  True love of God must be the common goal of all men,
 for which they give up their selfish desires.  Then unity will be
 possible.  In order for true love to come to be recognized we have to
 decide who will be the master.  If we want a unified world without
 boundaries, there will an opposing element.   All kinds of boundaries
 came into being  because people are self-centered, moving toward their
 own goal instead of a unified goal.  Suppose two people are friends. The
 will be harmony, but as soon as one demonstrates some selfishness, they
 are dived and go into different directions.  Actually the battle between
 God and Satan is like a tug of war with man in the center, each trying
 to pull man towards his side.  Each camp has a boundary which it tries
 to pull man across.

 Freedom is fashionable word today, but when you dig down to the bottom
 of it, people are talking about selfishness.  True freedom comes with
 responsibility attached.  True freedom can only come with true love, but
 how do we find true love ?  True love is found in 'true sacrifice'.
 'True' means unconditional giving of your most precious thing - your
 life - for the sake of others.  The fundamental teaching of a true
 religion is the method by which true sacrifice is taught and practiced.
 Even if you cannot feel this, at least in your brain you can recognize
 that it is true.

 If you say to God that you will give yourself totally for Him and His
 will, He will do the same for you. However, if you say to Satan that you
 will sacrifice for him, then he will just sit back and enjoy himself.
 Satan will never sacrifice for you.  This is the difference between God
 and Satan.

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Date       07-23-91 23:15:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Brian Henderson
Subject     Transitionals

 BH> FLOOD.ZIP which goes into some detail on why the flood of the
 BH> Bible COULD NOT have happened.

 Permeative man's diet relied heavily on fish, which came from the ocean,
 rivers and other low lying areas.  The area I grew up in is about 300
 feet above current sea level and it is rich with fossilized whale bones
 and shark teeth from the age when it was under water.   Actually in the
 present day, Louisiana is losing large quantities of land daily due to
 global warming resulting in a rise in the sea level.  From our viewpoint
 we are being flooded. Likewise permeative man faced a flood when
 everyone that lived near the ocean experienced a rise in the sea level.
 What if Noah lived on an island ?   They could easily have ran out of
 high spots to climb to.  From their viewpoint the whole world was
 flooded.

 I don't know any reputable scientist that would be foolish enough to say
 that at some point in the history of the earth there was not massive
 flooding.  Well not unless they are trying to get on Geraldo's show.

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Date       07-24-91 12:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jim Taylor
Subject     MESSAGE FROM REV. MO M

 JT> What a great beauty there is, in these messages you have posted!
 JT> While I will not personally be convinced of the theological
 JT> position, being an Eastern
 JT> Orthodox Christian, I can see and appreciate the gentle spirit,
 JT> the emotional depth, and
 JT> the conceptual consistency of this theology.

 Thanks.  It's nice to be appreciated.  I have to admit when I discovered
 the Divine Principle 15 years ago I had doubts because it was quite a
 change from the Southern Baptist theology that was familiar from my
 upbringing.  The reason the theology shakes up most Christians is
 because it makes sense that God should be a grand father.  If that has
 been God's goal in history then there is no way that Almighty God could
 accomplish it on his own.  Becoming a grand father is not something
 anyone can do by them self.  This idea that God has some limitations
 really freaks out some folks.  But nevertheless love has boundaries
 within which it must function. If God's goal is to become a grand
 father, then Jesus death was a terrible mistake.  Also that means the
 second coming of christ must be a substantial person born in the flesh
 as the third Adam.   It is easier to be a follow a of a spiritual leader
 who is not talking to you every Sunday, confronting your sin and
 challenging you to become a messiah yourself.


 I strongly believe the scripture that says a nation without a vision
 will perish.  If you begin to understand the Divine Principle, the
 vision that it projects is unparalleled in human history.  Jesus was
 severely handicapped by the quality of his followers, so he was limited.
 Just look at the situation that arose from a few people asking Jesus'
 followers the question: 'If Jesus is the messiah, where is Elijah ?'.
 You can see when his followers returned to Jesus, they asked him: 'Why
 do they want to know where is Elijah ? '     You can see that they were
 not at all familiar with the last chapter in the Old Testament that says
 that before Christ comes Elijah must return.  How could Jesus hope to
 build a kingdom without people like John the Baptist and St. Paul
 helping him ? Had Jesus had the support of a few of these kinds of
 people prior to Palm Sunday, there would have been not crucifixion.

 Well, I'm inspired and rumbling so I better stop here before I get
 everyone confused.

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Date       07-24-91 12:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC> TB>Therefore, in order to indemnify the entire history since
 WC> Abraham TB>in the Period of Preparation for the Messiah, the
 WC> First Israel had TB>to suffer external tribulations under the
 WC> rule of Persia, Greece, TB>Egypt, Syria, and Rome.
 WC>
 WC>     Actually, Terry, the Bible does not teach this. Israel did

 Maybe not clearly enough for your to recognize.  Don't forget when you
 read my messages they are EXTRA-BIBLICAL revelations that you don't yet
 naturally understand.  This is precisely the reason most people have
 such great difficulty understanding the Divine Principle.  They have
 never experience the suffering that in necessary to comprehend and
 understand the suffering heart of God.  Why do you think the Japanese
 occupied and oppressed the Koreans for the 40 year indemnity period from
 1905 to 1945.  When you read what Billy Graham said about Korean
 Christianity you will know that he has recognized the fertile soil God
 has prepared for the advancement of His kingdom of heaven on earth.
 Don't forget that America is in the same position to this tiny nation as
 Rome was to the tiny nation of Israel to which the messiah once came.

 WC> not HAVE to suffer. They suffered because of their own unbelief
 WC> and diso- bedience. Check out Chapter 26 of Leviticus. God told
 WC> Israel what would happen to them if they were obedient and what
 WC> would happen if they were disobedient. The choice was entirely
 WC> in the hands of Israel. They chose their path. The promises of
 WC> Chapter 26 have been fulfilled.

 There is also an element of truth in your understanding.  This is
 because there are 3 types of indemnity.  Lesser, equal, and Greater.
 If people fulfill the first condition that God requires, then they get
 by with the lesser indemnity condition, however if they fail as did
 Abraham when asked to sacrifice the heifer, ram, goat, pigeon and dove,
 the greater condition kicks in and then suddenly they find the condition
 is as difficult as Abraham was faced with when God told him that NOW he
 would have to sacrifice his son.

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Date       07-24-91 12:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC> TB>Christians in that period had to indemnify the entire course
 WC> of TB>history since Jesus' time by overcoming severe internal
 WC> trials in TB>their religious lives.
 WC>
 WC>     Christians CANNOT indemnify anything to earn salvation.
 WC> Jesus did it all at Calvary. Without the shedding of blood there
 WC> is no remission of sins. That's what Scripture says.

 Well, Walter,  all I can conclude is that you do not comprehend the
 meaning of a covenant and the necessity of both parties to fulfill their
 portion of responsibility.  Salvation is not up to God alone.

 Let me post the scripture that 'arm chair christians' dislike most:

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
              exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye
              shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
              exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye
              shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Date       07-24-91 12:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC> TB>Among the Gentiles, God had Gautama Buddha of India (565 -
 WC> 485 TB>B.C.)...and he had Socrates (470 - 399 B.C.). In the
 WC> Orient, God TB>had Confucius (552 - 479 B.C.) set up a standard
 WC> of human ethics TB>and morality through Confucianism.
 WC>
 WC>     Terry, none of these men knew God. They were following their
 WC> father the devil.

 I know Walter, your church is the only thing God has touched on this
 earth.  Keep trying to perfect your denomination and you will miss the
 glory of recognizing God's providence to save all mankind.

 You are going to be surprised one day when you find out that God could
 really care less about Religion.  It is only a tool that became
 necessary when man fell.   The tool of religion can be used by God
 however He wills.  Yes, even through non-Christian spiritual ideologies.

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Date       07-24-91 12:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Messiah

 WC> TB>Jesus, coming on the foundation of this preparation, intended
 WC> to TB>unify all of the regions and various religions and
 WC> cultures into TB>one sphere of God-centered culture by absorbing
 WC> Judaism, Helle- TB>nism, Buddhism, Confucianism, and all the
 WC> religions and cultures TB>that God had prepared.
 WC>
 WC>     This means that God lied to us. This is directly
 WC> contradictory to the Bible.

 No Walter, you have only overlooked the possibility that God may not be
 a little-bitty God with a limited humanistic vision.

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Date       07-24-91 12:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Peace and Security!

 CR> one another?  NO!  And no manmade government will ever provide
 CR> this peace and security. But
 CR> yet, Jehovah our God, WILL provide exactly this, for mankind.

 How will He do this ?   Could it be through men like He does when He
 publishes the Watchtower ?

 Is God going to chose men and set up his government through a religious
 movement ?

 Don't be shy -- if you believe it to be yours let us know.

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Date       07-24-91 13:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Peace and Security!

 CR>  This means there will be no more greedy politicians and greedy
 CR> business leaders to oppress the people. Nor will people be
 CR> burdened with high taxes to pay for military weapons. Never
 CR> again will anyone be without good food and comfotable housing,
 CR> because he cannot afford them. Unemployment, inflation, and high
 CR> prices will be no more. The troubles that cause suffering to
 CR> families will no longer
 CR> exist. All will have pleasant work to do, and they will be able
 CR> to see and enjoy the rsults of their labors.

 Sounds like you are running for political office ?  < grin >  I think I
 have heard these nobel words in several campaign speeches.   We all want
 peace on earth and everyone ( except Jw's who don't celebrate Christmas)
 send each other cards every year that say that.

 How can this be done ?    The root of sin is selfishness.  Until
 selfishness is eliminated and man's original nature restored, this ideal
 world will not appear.  Now ask yourself can God snap His fingers and
 bring man across the boundary line between selfishness and unselfishness
 ??  Surely he would have done that a long time ago if it were so simple.

 The only way we can cross such a strict boundary is to be willing to
 become a total sacrifice for the sake of True Love.  Jesus taught us how
 to do that on an individual level, but our world consists of other
 levels like families, societies,  and nations.    How are we to learn
 the absolute standard of love on the family level without a model to
 follow ? The purpose of the coming of the Messiah is to establish this
 model family, which is the building block for the kingdom of heaven, and
 then to adopt people into that family who are willing to become totally
 devoted to sacrificing themselves for the sake of true love.

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Date       07-24-91 13:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Peace and Security!

 CR>  Another miracle will add to the paradise conditions. Animals
 CR> such as lions,
 CR> tigarr, leopards and bears which now can be dangerous, will be
 CR> at peace.

 Lions love lamb chops, Lions will always love lamb chops.  Animals
 didn't fall, ( I have never seen a dog praying or a cow repenting ) why
 should they change when man is restored ?

 I think you are getting carried away with the symbology of poetic
 scripture.

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Date       07-24-91 13:19:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Peace and Security!

 CR> kingdom rule. The old will even grow young again! Yes, `a mans
 CR> flesh will become fresher than his
 CR> youth.'  Job 33:25  What a thrill it will be to wake up each
 CR> morning and realize that you are in better health then you were
 CR> the day before!

 And continue to procreate so many children that the earth could never
 support such a population.   You must never have had any rabbits or you
 would know such an idea of eternal youthful people would never work.

 I think I'll send you a pair of rabbits and see how long your ideology
 is holding up about a year later < grin >

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Date       07-24-91 13:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Peace and security!

 CR> Surely no one living in youthful perfect health, on a pardise
 CR> earth will ever want to die!

 Nothing scary about dieing when you know you are going to a good place.
 The reason people are afraid of dieing now is because they sense the
 spiritual world needs improvement.  But that can only come about through
 changes on earth.

 MAT 16:19   And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
             and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in
             heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be
             loosed in heaven.
 MAT 18:18   Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth
             shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on
             earth shall be loosed in heaven.

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Date       07-25-91 09:03:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject       IS JESUS ALSO MICHICHA

 TB> So the evidence indicates that
 TB> the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and
 TB> in known also by that name since his return to heaven where he
 TB> resides as the glorifed spitit Son of God.

 I simply don't believe that Jesus pre-existed his birth.  Sure the
 concept of a perfect man, Christ, the Messiah, and other IDEALS pre-
 existed the person who would eventually come to fulfill this position.

 I look at it like this.  Suppose you like basketball but you aren't very
 good at it, and you have a dream that someday you will have a son who is
 a great player.  You may later have several sons and one of them, say
 the 4 th, turns out to that great player and fulfill the position or
 concept of that ideal son you dreamed of having.   He could say that he
 pre-existed his birth, and even that before his older brothers existed
 he existed.   In other words before Abraham was I am.


 If you take note of a system that God consistently uses throughout the
 Bible, you will see He always finds a replacement when a person cannot
 fulfill his mission.  When Moses struck the rock of Horeb in Rephidim
 twice, he lost his position and Joshua replaced him to lead the people
 into the promise land.   When Judas betrayed Christ Matthias was chosen
 to replace him as one of the 12 apostles.    When Lucifer seduced Eve
 and left his proper dwelling in attempt to take Adam's rightful position
 as husband to eve. He lost his position as archangel.  Michael was
 chosen to replace him because the angelic world was divided between
 those who remained to serve God and those who went with Lucifer.  I
 think the scripture says that Lucifer took 1/3 of the Angelic world with
 him when he fell.  Someone had to be chosen from among the unfallen
 angels to take his position.  This was Michael.   In Jude you can read
 about the actions Lucifer's crew have been up to.  It seems logical that
 God will use His crew headed up by Michael when he 'binds' these angels
 as promised.

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Date       07-25-91 09:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject    n

 LW> Carla
 LW>
 LW> Well, I did warn you at first not to let any of the elders of
 LW> your church know that you were talking on here.  I guess that
 LW> they have asked you to give it up, in fear that you would learn
 LW> the truth.

 You're cracking me up.  You don't really think that Carla has been
 instructed to stop witnessing to us do you ?   I never... I repeat  NEVE
 heard of a Jw that was not pushed out to teach their doctrine.   A mean,
 that is what a Jw is...   If someone higher up in their organization
 thought for a second that they had everyone duked and was worried that
 they may find out the 'real truth' ( that we know < grin > ) these folks
 would be encouraged to stay at home and avoid contact with people who do
 know 'the truth'.      Maybe you are hoping they will start staying at
 home ?    Don't count one it though.

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Date       07-25-91 09:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Les Wilcox
Subject     Peace and Security!

 LW> This is totally unfair of you and is a cheap way for you to back
 LW> out of discussi I will miss you, and I hope you change your mind
 LW> and return to fair discussionsof Gods word.

 Although I see your point and do agree to a certain extent, you could
 just can this message and open insÿ4ZΣinspen Æ.
4esin%arly thiÖo
s î]2▄▄ @Çly▄seαse H─
▄sage> the tty!

Date       07-28-91 07:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject       Images (Definitioni

 TB> Are you one that is into word games too. Or are you just looking
 TB> for away, just any way to disprove the truth.

 Yeah, sure I'm out to duke you but you are too smart for me.  I sure met
 my match.  Guess I'll have to agree and play your word game.

 TB> Christain religon. Facts are Facts . But it is not for me to
 TB> JUDGE any one person.

 I simply pointed out that you said it was wrong to judge then you
 started passing out judgement.  I think this is called hypocrisy.

 TB> The Bible speaks for itself, and if this is all that you can
 TB> come up with, then I think that you need to start over.

 Then quit trying to interpret it for me.

 TB> worship. Terry, do you worship some kind of idol? Is that why
 TB> you are so against what I am talking about?

 I don't give a whoot about what you talk about.  Many people contradict
 themselves, you just did it within the same message.  I pointed it out.

 TB> Please I do not understand why you are so up set!

 You are the one that is upset because you didn't like the fact that I
 pointed out your hypocrisy.

 TB> I also have a messege from someone that has been trying to get a
 TB> hold of you, but you seem to refuse to reply to his messege.
 TB>           From Bob Diepenbrock

 Bob left me a message about a month ago saying the he preferred not to
 have any more discussions with me.  That was just after he stooped to
 the levels of accusing my wife of fornication with my minister.  He is
 on my insulate list and I will not be corresponding with him.  No more
 to say about this.  He has simply fallen from grace.

 TB> Will, I got to go for now. Terry I do hope to here from you
 TB> soon. I know that it can be hard to write a letter to someone
 TB> that you believe does not believe in the same way as you.

 What are you talking about ?   There is not another person in this
 entire conference that understands or believes the Divine Principle.
 EVERY message I have entered for the past year and half has been written
 to someone that does not believe the way I do.

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Date       07-28-91 08:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject     Jesus' Resurrection

 DO> How presumptuous to call Jehovah wrong!

 You have been around long enough to know that no one is calling Jehovah
 wrong.  We simply don't agree with your interpretation.  Someone is
 wrong alright but we don't think it is Jehovah.  < grin >

 DO> He is the one who designed the human
 DO> body, not you. If he offers everlasting life on earth, who do
 DO> you think you are to negate that promise? What kind of ego do
 DO> you have to be able to claim a better
 DO> understanding of human life than it's creator!?!?!?

 What kind of idiot can watch plants, animals, reptiles, and insect... in
 other words all living creatures... go through life cycles and come to
 conclusion that humans will some day be exempted from this natural law?

 Only man could come up with such a fantasy.  Had you lived a couple
 centuries ago you would have been with Ponce De Leon, traversing all
 over Florida looking for that fountain of youth.

 In my opinion you shouldn't allow your wishes to get in the way of
 reality.  There is no stoping the biological clock. You will get old and
 die.    Ye therefore should focus on growing your spiritual body which
 will be all you have in the next life.

 Do you know why ?

 Look at it like it really is:   You spent the first 9 months of your
 life inside your mother where everything you needed was automatically
 delivered to you.  You didn't need to develop yourself to enjoy life
 there, but if your internal organs like your lungs, heart, digestive
 system etc. were not developed in that stage, you would have not made it
 in this stage of life.   Likewise you may have 90 years in this life to
 develop you capacity to love.  You will find that in the next life you
 will need to be abel to love to make it there, just as much as you need
 your internal organs to survive in this life.  God instituted the family
 as the college to educate people to love.  You can learn all levels of
 love in the family and prepare yourself for the next life.  In the
 family you learn the upward filial love toward parents, you learn the
 horizontal love toward siblings then later the horizontal love toward a
 spouse, then next you learn the downward parental love toward your own
 children, and finally the love of a grandparent.  With out graduating
 from these required courses in the institution of the family a person is
 in sad shape when they enter the spiritual world.... it would be better
 that they were not conscious.  < grin >

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Date       07-28-91 08:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Jeanette Schoeplein
Subject    n

 JS> are brainwashed into believing the doctrine.

 You should know that religious conversion is probably the most
 mis-understood event in human life.  Religious experiences lead a person
 to have faith in things that 'outsiders' can't understand.  Did you know
 that you probably appear just as brainwashed to a buddhist in China as a
 Jw does to you ?

 JS> It is pure and simple desception.....and the bible talks about

 I'm not so quick to jump to the conclusion that someone is trying to
 deceive me if the don't agree.

 JS> it....we had them coming to our door and each time they left
 JS> with unanswered questions and came back with a higher person on
 JS> the totem pole...and finally when it got to the top dog

 Are you saying that you have the answer to all my questions ?  Do you
 believe in the rapture in the traditional sense that you are going to
 float away some where ?

 JS> and he couldn't answer our questions

 You must have been expecting them to send the messiah.. < grin > Are you
 sure you could answer all their questions about your faith ?

 JS> I mean could anyone convince you that you wern't right?????

 Sure, and they have.  I was not born into the Unification Church.  And
 the Divine Principle is not to be found in any of the publications
 passed along to me by the Southern Baptist Church at sunday school.

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Date       07-28-91 13:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    JESUS' FATHER

 GS> Now Zechariah was the father of St. John the Baptist and his
 GS> wife was Elizabeth, Mary's cousin. With this in mind, what is he
 GS> doing having sex with Mary? I

 I suppose you could ask the same question of Abraham:

 GEN 25:12    Now these [are] the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son,
           whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham:

 You don't know the Bible very well do you ?   < grin >


 I suppose you have never heard of Jacob and his wives Rachel and Leah
 either ?
                                                 * The Moon is the Son *

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Date       07-28-91 13:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    SEXUAL PURIFICATION

 GS> I also have a question about your beliefs. If Adam and Eve fell
 GS> as a result of sexual sin, how did Satan and the angels (demons)
 GS> fall? Being spiritual creatures, they do not engage in sex.

 JDE 1:6     And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left
             their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains
             under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 JDE 1:7     Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in
             like manner, giving themselves over to fornication,....

 JOH 8:41    Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be
             not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
 JOH 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me


 Spirits cannot get women pregnant but they can engage in sexual
 intercourse,  fight as they did with Jacob, eat as they did with Abraham
 and do most other things that physical beings can do.

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Date       07-30-91 14:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ken Akridge
Subject    Jesus

 KA> When Jesus died, did he go to hell ?

 Yes, he went into the 'nether glooms' and preached for 3 days and 2
 nights.  Pretty strong evidence that God intends to clean up Hell.
 Hell may not be a place people will actually spend eternity.

 But, like the old saying goes.. don't do the crime if you can't do the
 time !

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Date       07-30-91 18:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 1/3

 WC> TB>many christians that Jesus is God, because a perfect, true
 WC> person TB>is one with God.
 WC>
 WC>     Following this line of reasoning there will eventually be
 WC> bil- lions of gods. When fallen man is restored and sinless
 WC> children are born then eventually we would have billions of
 WC> gods.

 How true you are Walter !  You are learning faster than I anticipated !

 1JO 3:2     Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet
             appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall
             appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 WC> If they are gods how can they be children. The have
 WC> suppressed being humans and become gods.

 I suppose the same way it already happened once before:

 MAT 1:21    And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his
             name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

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Date       07-30-91 18:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 1/3

 WC>     It would also be a grave error to say that Jesus was ONLY a
 WC> human. He was also God incarnate. He was God manifested in
 WC> flesh. That is what the Bible says.

 What is the image of God ?

 GEN 1:27    So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God
             created he him; male and female created he them.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 AT best you can be only half correct that Jesus was God.  Jesus was not
 a woman too was he ?

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Date       07-30-91 18:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 2/3

 WC>     This is certainly what the Bible teaches. I am a bit
 WC> curious, Terry. You have rejected biblical authority and in its
 WC> stead used "new revelation." Why do you now appeal to Scripture
 WC> which you have reject- ed as being true?

 I have NEVER rejected biblical authority.  I have often rejected BAD
 translations that are always floating around by mis-guided believers.

 And another thing...  I have always offered scripitural references for
 support of my doctrine.

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Date       07-30-91 18:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 2/3

 WC>     Your desire to discredit Jesus as being God is interesting.
 WC> You Use only a few passages to explain away that Jesus is God
 WC> incarnate--God manifested in flesh. However I have on more than
 WC> one occasion sent you a number of Scripture which tell us that
 WC> Jesus is God. To date you have not responded to a single one of
 WC> them. They must all be explained away in order for you position
 WC> to be correct.  I will post those again. Perhaps you will be
 WC> able to explain all of them away.

 You have never attempte to explain these verses to me:

 MAR 13:32    But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not
              the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the
              Father.

 JOH 4:24    God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
             [him] in spirit and in truth.

 JOH 8:54    Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing:
             it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he
             is your God:

 1TI 2:5     For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and
             men, the man Christ Jesus;

 COL 3:1     If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which
             are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 JOH 5:19    Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I
             say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what
             he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth,
             these also doeth the Son likewise.

 1JO 4:14    And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the
             Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

 2JO 1:9     Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine
             of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine
             of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 GEN 1:27    So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God
             created he him; male and female created he them.

 2CO 4:4     In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of
             them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
             gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine
             unto them.

 ACS 22:9    And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were
             afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to
             me.

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Date       07-30-91 18:24:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 2/3

 WC> TB>But Jesus didn't mean that he was God.  Rather, Jesus could
 WC> say TB>this because, although on the basis of his genealogy
 WC> Jesus was a TB>descendant of Abraham, in fact he is the ancestor
 WC> of Abraham TB>because he came to give rebirth to all mankind
 WC> from the position TB>of the perfect Adam, that is from the
 WC> position of a True Parent, a TB> True Ancestor of all mankind.
 WC>
 WC>     All this is "new revelation" which contradicts established
 WC> Scripture.

 Oh no, Walter.  It is not 'new revelation' and it only contradicts your
 interpreted version of scripture.

 I thought you agreed with the 'oneness' crew ?  Now you are going back
 to the old policies you once graduated from and making God into two
 gods.  What is the difference between the 2 gods you are now preaching
 and the 3 gods version of the trinity that you oppose ?

 WC> I have already demonstrated from the Old Testament that Jesus is
  God.

 Yes, I have now demonstrated that God is God and Jesus is a Man, HIS
 son, a separate identity.

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Date       07-30-91 18:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 3/3

 WC>     Jesus is not "next to" God. He IS God. He is God manifested
 WC> in the flesh.

 Walter, I thought you knew the Bible better than this.  You are making
 it hard on your teacher < grin >.  Here is your homework assignment:


 ACS 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having
           received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath
           shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 ACS 5:31  Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and
           a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness
           of sins.

 ACS 7:55  But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly
           into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on
           the right hand of God,

 ACS 7:56  And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
           standing on the right hand of God.

 ROM 8:34  Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea
           rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of
           God, who also maketh intercession for us.

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Date       07-30-91 18:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 3/3

 WC>     Jesus had a dual nature. He was both man and God. His
 WC> perfect humanity intercedes for us with deity.

 There you go... slipping back toward that old trinity idea...

 You should do like Dorothy at the conclusion of the Wizard of Oz and
 rather than saying "There's no place like home"   start saying:

 "There is only one God."
 "There is only one God."
 "There is only one God."
 "There is only one God."........

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Date       07-30-91 18:36:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 3/3

 WC> TB>In the spirit world he lives as a spirit person just as his
 WC> disci- TB>ples do, the only difference being that his spirit
 WC> self is without TB>original sin and shines brilliantly.
 WC>
 WC>     That is ABSOLUTELY NOT what Scriveners say. In Acts 1:9-11
 WC> Jesus ascended bodily into heaven. The angel of God said that He
 WC> would return in like manner. You say that He will return the
 WC> second time as a baby born to a woman. There can be no other
 WC> conclusion that either God lied to us when He had the angel tell
 WC> us that Jesus would return in the manner He ascended or else
 WC> your "new revelation" did not come from God. You cannot get
 WC> around this Scripture, Terry. Either God meant what He said or
 WC> else He deliberately deceived us....


 Relax Walter, God isn't trying to deceive you.   The manner in which
 Jesus left was persecuted, mis-understood, rejected, and hated by the
 very people he came to save.  What will Christians do when Christ
 returns as a man and confronts their sin ?

 You don't think there can be another conclusion but you have now heard
 another one and I tell you it will stick with you and haunt your
 conscious because it is true and You love God and want to know the truth
 and do the right thing.  I could not escape the truth myself no matter
 how hard I fought.  Keep fighting though.  You are now in the position
 of Burr Rabbit to the Tar Baby...   The more you struggle the more you
 are going to understand this new revelation !

 Hallelujah !            The Moon is the Son !

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Date       07-30-91 18:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Christ part 3/3

 WC> TB>If Jesus were God, how could he intercede with himself?
 WC>
 WC>     No, His humanity would intercede with deity.

 There is only one God.
 There is only one God......

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Date       07-30-91 18:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     Messiah

 WC>     There is absolutely NO scriptural evidence that Abraham
 WC> failed. the sacrifices were prepared according to custom. You
 WC> cannot find a reference in Scripture that tells us that Abraham
 WC> was required by God

 GEN 15:9    And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old,
             and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years
             old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.
 GEN 15:10   And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the
             midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the
             birds divided he not.
 GEN 15:11   And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove
             them away.
 GEN 15:12   And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon
             Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
 GEN 15:13   And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall
             be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall
             serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

 Looks to me like Abraham did something wrong.


 Notice what offering God asked of Abraham later on.

 GEN 22:2    And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom
             thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer
             him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains
             which I will tell thee of.


 This is a classic example of a failure to make a small offering and
 establish a condition of indemnity later resulting in a the requirement
 for a greater condition of indemnity.

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Date       07-30-91 18:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     Messiah

 WC>     On the contrary, Terry. I have studied ancient Hebrew
 WC> customs. I am aware of what was required for a covenant.
 WC> Salvation is totally God's. The sacrifice at Calvary has paid
 WC> for our redemption.

 Let me give you something to ponder:

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
              exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye
              shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^

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Date       07-30-91 19:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     Messiah

 WC>     You cannot have it both ways, Terry. You have rejected the
 WC> Bible as your authority and turned to extra-biblical authority.
 WC> Therefore you cannot appeal to Scripture as you authority.

 Once again I have never rejected the scripture as authority.  It is the
 mis-guided interpretations that have been floating around by seeming
 sincere believers that I cannot agree with.    Just as you have the New
 Testament as an additional revelation to the Old Testament, I have the
 completed testament in addition to the Old and New.    I would even
 venture to bet that this 'Oneness' doctrine is written up and used in
 the same manner by your faith as the Divine Principle is by my faith.
 Do you deny that ?

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Date       07-30-91 19:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     Messiah

 WC>     God has never been interested in religion. He is interested
 WC> in obedience. Obedience is proof of faith and without faith it
 WC> is impos- sible to please God.

 Hummm,   now you are admitting that Man has a portion of responsibility
 involved with his salvation.   That's exactly what I have been saying
 too.  Maybe I couldn't put it into the correct words for you to
 understand ?

 Obedience to man's portion of the covenant is not God's responsibility.
 So without man's fulfillment of his own portion of responsibility God is
 helpless to save us.

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Date       07-31-91 07:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    Did Jesus have a prehuman

 TB> How are you sence the last time we talk. I am gald that you have
 TB> found time to write back to some of my replys. It is always good
 TB> to here from

 I think I answer every message I get.  Of course I may be getting sent
 messages from some folks that were so abnoxious I had to insulate them
 from my bbs.  But obviouly you aren't one of them.

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Date       07-31-91 07:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Thomas Bentley
Subject    Did Jesus have a prehuman

 TB> " The Person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life
 TB> here on earth.
 TB> He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (John 3:13;
 TB> 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42,58) John 1:1,2 gives the heavenly name of the
 TB> one who became Jesus, saying:
 TB> "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo'gos] was, and the Word was
 TB> with God, and
 TB> the Word was a god ["was divine,"The Bible-An American
 TB> Translation; The New Translation of the Bible; or "of divine
 TB> being," Bohmer; Stage (both German)].
 TB> This one was in the beginning with God. "Since Jehovah is
 TB> eternal and had no
 TB> beginning (Ps 90:2; Rev. 15:3), the Word's being with God from
 TB> "the beginning"
 TB> must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah's creative works.

 My view is that 'word' means IDEAL.  The ideal of a perfected man ( and
 woman ) pre-existed Jesus' life.  Some day a woman will fulfill the role
 that Eve failed to fulfill as True Woman and True Mother to mankind and
 She also will fulfill the IDEAL or 'word' that pre-existed her birth.

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Date       07-31-91 08:04:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Brian Henderson
Subject     Intelligent Plan

 BH> Simply, you misunderstand mutation.  A lizard doesn't simply
 BH> produce a cow one day.  It happens in a myriad of minute stages.

 It is really easier to believe in little bitty stages than it is to
 believe in grandiose leaps ?  It would be difficult for a lizzard to
 give birth to a cow.

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Date       07-31-91 08:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Daniel Osborn
Subject     Jesus' Resurrection

 DO> Your opinion is of no significance at all. Neither is mine. The
 DO> Bible is the only thing that matters here. You should not let
 DO> your smugness and feelings
 DO> of superiority over past generations such as that of Ponce De
 DO> Leon cloud your eyes
 DO> to the message of the Bible. When Sun Moon shows pictures of
 DO> people "levitatingover trampolines, doesn't it make you
 DO> uncomfortable to act so materialistic?

 Could you send me one of those pictures ?  Walter has been asking to see
 a miracle.  I could forward it to him.  < grin >      If such an event
 did occur, I'm sure I would have heard of it.

 I have to confess the spirit of my message about Ponce De Leon was not
 written in the most gentle manner.  I was trying to make a point by
 being funny but I it may not have appeared that way.

 My personal objection to the eternal life in the flesh is based on 2
 observations or questions that cannot be satisfactorily answered:

 #1.  How could the earth support a population of humans that would never
 grow old and would quickly overpopulate its ability to support that many
 human lives.  You should consider the problem in China and that would be
 nothing compared to every woman on earth having a baby every few years.
 Then in a few years that child starting to have babies.

 You can see that this idea is like a little lie that once told it needs
 another lie to cover up its shortcomings.  Now we need another belief
 that will stop people from reproducing to prevent the overpopulation
 problem.  But even then overpopulation will happen before eternity is
 finished.  So now we need a third little lie to cover up and find man
 another planet to expand too, or something to fix the last problem.
 Can't you see that God created man with a spirit that is in His image,
 transcendent of time and space ?  This is the truth and it needs no
 fixes to cover up it's shortcomings.

 #2.  (This is meant to be funny to make my point)  What would happen if
 you got run over by a truck ?  Would you just get up and brush off the
 dust like a cartoon character ?   In other words a simple accident could
 easily destroy someone's 'eternally youthful' body.  Then what could
 they do ?    See how this leads to a cover up like a belief that the
 elect would never have an accident.  It's simply easier to believe in
 the truth than to concoct a series of cover ups to deal with the
 shortcomings of believing people could live forever in the flesh.

 It was not physical life that was lost at the fall of man. It was man's
 spiritual life that became separated from God, thus causing man to live
 in a state of spiritual death.   Read the Bible.  This point is clear.

 Man's physical body is destined to return to the earth after it becomes
 old and dies.  If God had intended human beings to live eternally on
 earth in their physical bodies, there would have been no need to create
 the spirit world for spirit selves to go to.  God created the spirit
 world before man fell; he did not create it after the Fall simply to
 provide a dwelling for the spirit selves of fallen people.  It was
 always God's plan that man's physical self return to earth and that his
 spirit self dwell eternally with God in the spirit world (Eccles 12:7).
 Physical death is not the death caused by the Fall.

 When God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die on the day that
 they ate of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen
 2:17), the death referred to was not physical death.  We see in Genesis
 that Adam and Eve continued to be active and alive and to have children
 for more than nine hundred years after they ate the Fruit of the Tree of
 the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Yet, if we are to believe God's Word,
 then in some sense they must have died the moment they broke God's
 commandment.

 God's love is the source of life.  Therefore leaving the realm of God's
 love is entering into Satan's realm, where there is no true love, is
 death.  In 1 John 3:14 we learn that "He who does not love abides in
 death".  Also, Roman's 8:6 and Romans 6:23 respectively tell us, "To set
 the mind on the flesh [to be carnally minded] is death, but to set the
 mind on the Spirit is life and peace," and "... the wages of sin is
 death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus ...".
 So from the Bible's viewpoint, the death which was caused by the Fall is
 the state resulting from sin -- the state of being separated from God's
 love.

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Date       07-31-91 16:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC>     Perhaps God created man to be immortal from the beginning
 WC> but when man rebelled God had to set things straight. The plain
 WC> is God will resurrect all His children over the ages and give
 WC> them a resur- rection body which will be like the one Jesus has.
 WC> Then we will all have a physical body that is immortal also.

 Sounds like you have been reading the Watchtower ?  Are you going to
 fall for that eternal life in the flesh stuff ?   Don't you notice all
 living beings around you go through a life cycle and die.  Man will not
 be exempted even when restored. Every day we see animals that have grown
 old die.  This is not a result of sin. No animal ever sinned.  Likewise
 man's physical death is not related to sin.

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Date       07-31-91 16:33:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC> TB>However, because the first man and woman fell
 WC>
 WC>     Exactly!!
 WC>
 WC> TB>(during their growing period)
 WC>
 WC>     Extra-biblical. This concept cannot be found in Scripture.
 WC> In fact, the implication is just the opposite. They were created
 WC> as emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually mature adults.

 If a person sinned no one in their righ mind would say they were
 perfected.

 Lots of info I have given you in new revelation, but this is just common
 sense.  Perfected people don't sin.

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Date       07-31-91 16:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC>     I still remain amazed that you continually appeal to
 WC> Scripture when you have rejected Scripture.

 This is getting to be a habit.  I keep telling you I have not rejected
 Scripture, only mis-guided interpretations.  Did you reject the Old
 Testament when you accepted the New Testament ?   Did you reject the New
 Testament when you accepted the 'Oneness' doctrine ?

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Date       07-31-91 16:43:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC>     The belief that man's purpose of creation was to produce
 WC> children is in error.

 GEN 1:28   And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful,
            and multiply, and replenish the earth,

 WC> Therefore the purpose certainly cannot be to produce children.

 God wants GRAND CHILDREN !   How else can He have grand children unless
 two sinless mature adults of the opposite sex are married with His
 blessing, get together and have children ?

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Date       07-31-91 16:49:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC>     Sorry, Terry, only Jesus has a human and a divine nature. No
 WC> other human has a divine nature.

 Here you go believing the power of Satan is stronger to keep man in his
 dominion than the power of God's love is to restore man to his original
 position as a true Child of God...   and inherit God's divine nature.

 You never have stoped to think about who God wants His children to be
 like.  Certainly He wants His children to be like him.  God wants to
 give you HIS divine nature.  With God all things are possible, but only
 to those who believe.  Walter you gotta start believing in the power of
 God's love.

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Date       07-31-91 16:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.1

 WC> TB>However, because of the Fall, man did not become God's
 WC> temple.
 WC>     Terry, this is extra-biblical. It is in direct contradiction
 WC> Scripture.

 So  what evidence do you have that fallen man has become the temple of
 God ?  Certainly I can point to the crime and corruption as evidence
 that people have become the temple of someone other than God.

 Jesus pointed out that fallen man was not of God.

 JOH 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me

 JOH 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your
            father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
            abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
            When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a
            liar, and the father of it.


 JER 17:9     The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and
              desperately wicked:

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Date       07-31-91 17:05:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.2

 WC> TB>God?  Even though the goal of history is to restore the
 WC> Purpose of TB>the Creation, do the conflicts between good and
 WC> evil automatically TB>and naturally progress toward that
 WC> Purpose?  If so, then how can TB>we explain the many injustices
 WC> and tragedies in history, such as TB>the prevalence of evil or
 WC> the suffering of righteous people, TB>things which could hardly
 WC> be thought of as the work of an almighty TB>God of goodness?
 WC>
 WC>     Since God is omniscient He has total foreknowledge of all
 WC> events past, present, and future.

 Are you implying that God approves of evil and the suffering of
 righteous people ?

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Date       07-31-91 17:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.2

 WC>     No, Terry, they were created perfect and mature. There was
 WC> noth- ing to prefect. They were created as fully mature,
 WC> spiritually, physi- cally, and emotionally.

 Why did weren't the children of these perfect individuals sinless ?

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Date       07-31-91 17:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.2

 WC>     Nope. God's purpose is being fulfilled at the present time.
 WC> The purpose of the Cross was for this purpose. Without the
 WC> shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. That's
 WC> Scripture and not extra- biblical revelation. It is a part of
 WC> God's plan to reconcile man to Himself.

 Well Walter, you can bleed all you want and you can even make the Son of
 God bleed, but unless you love God more than you love your own life you
 will never see the kingdom of heaven.

 Love restores man not red and white corpuscles.

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Date       07-31-91 17:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.2

 WC> TB>God is absolute, eternal, and omnipotent;
 WC>
 WC>     Terry, some time ago you told me that God was not omnipotent
 WC> and not omniscient. Now you take the opposite view.

 Just keep reading Walter.  Even though my lack of ability to educate you
 is obvious, your conscious is God's secret agent and it knows truth.
 Keep reading and your conscious will get so strong that it will conquer
 your intellect and emotions and you will begin to see the vision of the
 power of the love of God.  And you will see the sad situation mankind is
 in and begin to understand the suffering heart of God.

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Date       07-31-91 17:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.3

 WC> TB>In order for God to restore fallen people, God must first
 WC> separate TB>them from Satan.  This is because as long as man
 WC> remains an object TB>to Satan, or remains under his influence,
 WC> the Purpose of the TB>Creation cannot be fulfilled.
 WC>
 WC>     The New Testament does not teach this theory.

 MAT 6:24    No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the
             one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one,
             and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 LUK 16:13   No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate
             the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the
             one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.



 Isn't this fun Walter !   Thanks for responding to my messages.

 I wish there were more folks like you out there that could respond
 like you do and tell me what they believe rather than loosing their
 'cool' and making personal attacks.
                                            The Moon is the Son

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Date       07-31-91 17:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.3

 WC> TB>And as a result of this process, fallen man receives the
 WC> Messiah, TB>who comes as the True Parent, and is reborn.
 WC>
 WC>     They did not receive Him the first time. The second time He
 WC> will return in power and glory at the head of an army of angels
 WC> and all the saints.

 This is a great idea for a movie.  I think you should contact Warner-
 Brothers and tell them this story !  < grin >   Why even ABC may make it
 into a Mini-Series !

 I really can't see why you don't understand you are making the same
 mistake those people made when Jesus came the first time.  They were
 expecting the same kind of thing you are looking for.  Now you know they
 were VERY mistaken and confused.   But nevertheless you adopt the same
 vision they had.  Why allow yourself to be fooled into making the same
 mistake someone else already make.  They clearly didn't know the time of
 their visitation, Jesus said so...     They even jeered Jesus and told
 him to come down off the cross if he had the power.   Why do you risk
 the possibility of falling into the same category as these idiots ?

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Date       07-31-91 17:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.3

 WC> TB>Since the level from which the first man and woman fell was
 WC> the TB>completion level of the growth stage, the completion
 WC> level of the TB>growth stage is also the level at which he is
 WC> born again in the TB>course of restoration.
 WC>
 WC>     This is all extra-biblical. This teaching is not found in
 WC> Scripture.

 I agree.   I told you some things were a new revelation.

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Date       07-31-91 17:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject     RESTORE.3

 WC> TB>If Adam and Eve had perfected themselves
 WC>
 WC>     This is an impossibility. No man can prefect himself. He can
 WC> only do so through the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling within
 WC> his heart.

 How could Adam and Eve attain perfection without obedience to God's
 word?  Man's perfection is not up to God alone.  You told me that man
 had to accept God because God would not force anyone.

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